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Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?

killdozzer

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This was discussed earlier. It also means that vinyl listeners also have friends/family who buy them gifts.
Not only that, it means there's 50% of them. I like the fact how facts don't work on vinyl crowd just like they don't on conspiracy theories fans.
 

Axo1989

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Not only that, it means there's 50% of them. I like the fact how facts don't work on vinyl crowd just like they don't on conspiracy theories fans.

Dropping in to basically piss in the general direction of people who like vinyl without following the discussion? Nice.

And yes, covered before, along with the entirely obvious fact that this was a US survey (a subset of vinyl buyers within the n=3900 total surveyed, obviously) and 50% applies to the number of buyers not the number of records sold.
 

goat76

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Dropping in to basically piss in the general direction of people who like vinyl without following the discussion? Nice.

And yes, covered before, along with the entirely obvious fact that this was a US survey (a subset of vinyl buyers within the n=3900 total surveyed, obviously) and 50% applies to the number of buyers not the number of records sold.

I ones thought about buying a few of those vinyl record wall mounts and some of my favorite records just for decorative purposes, even though I don't have a vinyl player. I think they look pretty good but I realized I rather use the wall space for some sound absorption panels instead. :)
 

Galliardist

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Not only that, it means there's 50% of them. I like the fact how facts don't work on vinyl crowd just like they don't on conspiracy theories fans.
No. If you think about it, people who are actually playing records buy most of them, even if some people have records they don't play. Fifty percent of buyers only means fifty percent of records if all record buyers have one disc, which is clearly nonsense.

Similarly, we don't necessarily get a huge number of new users out of a 15% increase in records purchased in 2023, or whatever it is by year's end. We actually don't know a lot about the real market for LPs today except that the total number of new records purchased has increased in recent years. That could be because there are a lot of new turntable users, or some new turntable users, or replacement of older turntable users giving up through age, or just a million or so rich people buying four records each, or...

The numbers largely exist in a vacuum. The only pieces of information I can find are that a number of audiophiles lost belief in "magic SACD" from reading old forums, and a group of audiophiles old and new spending lots of money on new equipment during the 2007 recession/crisis/whatever your country calls it, that appear to be rich and redundant people, and some people deciding to become entrepreneurs or returning to the vinyl space in different ways also after 2007. The growth in sales, I suspect, includes a lot of suppressed demand from pre-2007 users.

There's actually little evidence for a "hipster fad" in the real world, as opposed to a few newspaper articles and how people were shown (still are, sometimes) in advertising material. As I pointed out, there's little hipster material in the recent chart information in posts here.

What I do know is that every time I've challenged someone buying a new system with a turntable with "why do you need the turntable?" there have always been records to be played. You can't take away the culture or the history from those who have it and want to do more.

Does it even matter? If people are believing the "massively better quality" lie and spending huge sums of money chasing that lie, or if they are compromising their digital listening unnecessarily when starting out to get high fidelity, then maybe that does. If record companies feed stereo digital users crap because "audiophiles buy vinyl, the rest don't need decent sound" then maybe that does. Otherwise...?
 

Snoopy

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Yesterday I was listening to a LP rip … wonderful music really.. but the crackle and popping made me look for a used CD instead.

But if there was nothing else I would probably still listen to the LP or a LP rip.

Strange thing really is that I have no issues with the imperfections of a tape recording like tape hiss.
 

Galliardist

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Yesterday I was listening to a LP rip … wonderful music really.. but the crackle and popping made me look for a used CD instead.

But if there was nothing else I would probably still listen to the LP or a LP rip.

Strange thing really is that I have no issues with the imperfections of a tape recording like tape hiss.
I listen to shellac rips. They are way noisier with many more crackles and pops. Since I'm not in a position to get the 78s I would listen to even if I was prepared to chase such rare stuff, it's what is there.
 

killdozzer

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No. If you think about it, people who are actually playing records buy most of them, even if some people have records they don't play. Fifty percent of buyers only means fifty percent of records if all record buyers have one disc, which is clearly nonsense.

Similarly, we don't necessarily get a huge number of new users out of a 15% increase in records purchased in 2023, or whatever it is by year's end. We actually don't know a lot about the real market for LPs today except that the total number of new records purchased has increased in recent years. That could be because there are a lot of new turntable users, or some new turntable users, or replacement of older turntable users giving up through age, or just a million or so rich people buying four records each, or...

The numbers largely exist in a vacuum. The only pieces of information I can find are that a number of audiophiles lost belief in "magic SACD" from reading old forums, and a group of audiophiles old and new spending lots of money on new equipment during the 2007 recession/crisis/whatever your country calls it, that appear to be rich and redundant people, and some people deciding to become entrepreneurs or returning to the vinyl space in different ways also after 2007. The growth in sales, I suspect, includes a lot of suppressed demand from pre-2007 users.

There's actually little evidence for a "hipster fad" in the real world, as opposed to a few newspaper articles and how people were shown (still are, sometimes) in advertising material. As I pointed out, there's little hipster material in the recent chart information in posts here.

What I do know is that every time I've challenged someone buying a new system with a turntable with "why do you need the turntable?" there have always been records to be played. You can't take away the culture or the history from those who have it and want to do more.

Does it even matter? If people are believing the "massively better quality" lie and spending huge sums of money chasing that lie, or if they are compromising their digital listening unnecessarily when starting out to get high fidelity, then maybe that does. If record companies feed stereo digital users crap because "audiophiles buy vinyl, the rest don't need decent sound" then maybe that does. Otherwise...?
No. If you think about it, it's still funny. Because a lot of conclusions about records were drawn from the fact one year had better sales than CDs even though CDs were just being replaced.

It doesn't reflect anything I think about records, but it's always funny to see such flimsy assumptions collapse.

It's not about proving anything, regardless of what many high-brow, smug, self-absorbed members think while enjoying their own scent (I don't mean you here, you were trying to make a point, they'll recognize themselves).

What is funny and remains funny is that if anyone bases his opinion on sales increase, as some did, then the fact it's not being sold for use kinda blows the whole thing in their face. And there were many such comments earlier on.

We used to have a joke in my country about people buying books by length, as in a 'meter of books' because, since you bought shelves, you need something to fill them with. And these days it's records. It's clubs and flats being decorated with the 70' look with meters of records (and this is a far larger scale purchase then buying an album to listen to).

It's, in fact, very similar to a sharp spike in sales of these:
1699791045961.png


This is the hottest item in flea markets. And an important thing is - it doesn't matter if it works.
 

DanielT

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It's, in fact, very similar to a sharp spike in sales of these:
View attachment 325665

This is the hottest item in flea markets. And an important thing is - it doesn't matter if it works.
Speaking of old radios. In recent years it has become quite popular to insert a Bluetooth amplifier together with a new broadband element in old radios. Well, why not?.:)

Screenshot_2023-11-12_133713.jpg
 

beagleman

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I listen to shellac rips. They are way noisier with many more crackles and pops. Since I'm not in a position to get the 78s I would listen to even if I was prepared to chase such rare stuff, it's what is there.
I have owned several vinyl set ups, and still have one stored away, and also owned a few open reel players.

Even though open reel had tape hiss, that was noticeable, my best retail recordings (7.5 ips 2 track stereo Jazz and classical) sounded so wonderful and clean, that is was almost easy to ignore the high frequency hiss, as it was VERY consistent and did not vary or randomly interfere with the overall sound.

Vinyl bugs me due to the random nature, and how I hear a low frequency ambiance and stuff going randomly from channel to channel and so on. A bowling ball going down the lane type of sound, that is not constant, but varies a bit and is heard more subconsciously.

Changing to better equipment, and carts, simply reduced those sounds some, but with headphones, they were STILL there! The variety of the sounds, changed but I feel they are simply part of the overall sound. The RIAA curve boosts the lows so much upon playback it creates low frequency noise at the expense of high frequency noise.

To me hiss was more listenable.
 

beagleman

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This was discussed earlier. It also means that vinyl listeners also have friends/family who buy them gifts.
But the article you link to, does not even agree with your comment....?

Besides Vinyl and CD are selling similar numbers, if we go by the official stats I read.

Why is vinyl a huge resurgence, and CD is called "dead"....that shows a funny bias, about how one thing is being put to rest, and one is being "Pushed" as the thing to own.
Honestly NEITHER one is selling in even somewhat decent numbers.
They are both tiny niche markets now, compared to streaming.
 

Galliardist

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While fewer, this shows an increase in turntable sales recently. But if the revival started in 2007, why did unit sales fall in that year and not recover until 2013, when the industry was reporting increased revenues for hifi products? What is with sales of 60000+ per year before 2007?

This chart supports what I've been arguing: that there was indeed suppressed demand for records, that the change after 2007 was not so much in growth of the number of potential vinyl users suddenly increasing. The increase in turntable sales is nowhere near the scale of the increase in record sales.
 

Cote Dazur

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Besides Vinyl and CD are selling similar numbers, if we go by the official stats I read.

In 2022, 41 million vinyl units were sold compared to 33 million CDs, highlighting a "remarkable resurgence" of the physical music format, per the report released Thursday. Vinyl records made up a total of 70% of all physical music sales in 2022, bringing in a total of $1.2 billion in revenue, according to RIAA.Mar 9, 2023

Why is vinyl a huge resurgence, and CD is called "dead"....that shows a funny bias
Funny bias?
 

Galliardist

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But the article you link to, does not even agree with your comment....?

Besides Vinyl and CD are selling similar numbers, if we go by the official stats I read.

Why is vinyl a huge resurgence, and CD is called "dead"....that shows a funny bias, about how one thing is being put to rest, and one is being "Pushed" as the thing to own.
Honestly NEITHER one is selling in even somewhat decent numbers.
They are both tiny niche markets now, compared to streaming.
Because vinyl sales were much smaller ten years ago, and CD sales were much larger. Do keep up.

There is profit to be made from vinyl at the moment, and far less to be made from CD. At least, in the US.

Vinyl sales have not gone up as much in other parts of the world. So in Australia, more CDs still sell for now but there is still more profit per LP. The new product stores that I've visited recently have a 50/50 mix or so on their shelves (but that's six months ago, and sales of LP increased quickly in the US and Australia is following the same trend - the specialist chain stores and quite a few others have closed in the last decade or so, with the exception of JB Hi-Fi, which is making more money on TVs and microwaves right now as I understand it.
 

Newman

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This […the low TT ownership rate among vinyl buyers today…] was discussed earlier. It also means that vinyl listeners also have friends/family who buy them gifts.
You are just putting a wishful spin on it…a kind of Fake Fact that you just made up to soften the blow of what that statistic really means.

The writers of the report themselves…who surely know a million times better than you what it ‘means’ …are perfectly clear on the appropriate interpretation: the vinyl revival is driven by “superfans with a completist mindset”, and that these buyers are buying vinyl “as part of merch – not necessarily listening to it”.

Yep, a huge proportion of vinyl today is not even for playing, it’s just “merch”. Yippee. Let’s dance in the streets and revive this thread* every time a new sales stat comes out. NOT!!

*I refer to one individual pot-stirrer in particular
 

Galliardist

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In 2022, 41 million vinyl units were sold compared to 33 million CDs, highlighting a "remarkable resurgence" of the physical music format, per the report released Thursday. Vinyl records made up a total of 70% of all physical music sales in 2022, bringing in a total of $1.2 billion in revenue, according to RIAA.Mar 9, 2023


Funny bias?
"Though vinyl is making gains and reaching new generations, streaming still reigns supreme, accounting for 84% of total music revenue in 2022, per RIAA."

Sales are around 11% of what they were in 1977. The population of the US is 50% higher though. Taking everything into account, it seems to me that there is still unmet demand for vinyl discs but not for CDs, based on what can be charged for a broadly similar product. But I still say there was unmet or suppressed demand before the sales boom started, and that this increase in sales is not "remarkable" or a "renaissance".

The demand was there when they sold 120000 turntables in 2005-6, unless in those days it was 50% of new turntables that weren't used. But records weren't selling in large numbers then.
 

Galliardist

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You are just putting a wishful spin on it…a kind of Fake Fact that you just made up to soften the blow of what that statistic really means.

The writers of the report themselves…who surely know a million times better than you what it ‘means’ …are perfectly clear on the appropriate interpretation: the vinyl revival is driven by “superfans with a completist mindset”, and that these buyers are buying vinyl “as part of merch – not necessarily listening to it”.

Yep, a huge proportion of vinyl today is not even for playing, it’s just “merch”. Yippee. Let’s dance in the streets and revive this thread* every time a new sales stat comes out. NOT!!

*I refer to one individual pot-stirrer in particular
This doesn't necessarily work either. Over 1 million new turntables were sold in the US since 2005 per the link I posted above. Also for show?

(Well, maybe. Bicycle sales have consistently outrun regular use rates for decades).
 

Cote Dazur

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"Though vinyl is making gains and reaching new generations, streaming still reigns supreme, accounting for 84% of total music revenue in 2022, per RIAA."
Totally true and totally agree. Streaming is where it is at in 2023 and the future is going to be more of the same.
Sales are around 11% of what they were in 1977. The population of the US is 50% higher though. Taking everything into account, it seems to me that there is still unmet demand for vinyl discs but not for CDs, based on what can be charged for a broadly similar product. But I still say there was unmet or suppressed demand before the sales boom started, and that this increase in sales is not "remarkable" or a "renaissance".
In the view that Vinyl is not, ever, going to go back to being the predominant way, it once was, for people to listen to music, if that is the marker to be remarkable or a renaissance, then yes it is not.
That it was considered all but dead, but is not anymore, with yearly gain for more than 10 years, beside being more expensive, less practical, audibly and technically inferior to the leading medium of 2023, then it might be considered a renaissance and some how remarkable. I might even dare to submit "paradox" :)
 

levimax

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I ones thought about buying a few of those vinyl record wall mounts and some of my favorite records just for decorative purposes, even though I don't have a vinyl player. I think they look pretty good but I realized I rather use the wall space for some sound absorption panels instead. :)
you could combine the two :)
 

MattHooper

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Also, your assumptions are brainless, I like records. I read it this morning, and it was funny before all the sour losers piled in on it.
It's not about proving anything, regardless of what many high-brow, smug, self-absorbed members think while enjoying their own scent (I don't mean you here, you were trying to make a point, they'll recognize themselves.

Are you really happy, lowering the level of discourse in this forum like that?

One would hope expressing enthusiasm for vinyl or daring to challenge your interpretation
of the vinyl revival wouldn’t cause a member to default to such insults.

It remains puzzling how vinyl revival discussions are so triggering for some people.
 
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