Bowers and Wilkins MM1 speakers...

[Bren Derlin]

...since I brought these speakers up in that "dreaded Utopia/KEF R3 thread", I couldn't help myself. I just bought a second pair ($260 + $18 for shipping), which is about half the price for these speakers new. I bought this pair for my second computer. They replace a pair of Bose Companion 2 series III speakers that were gifted to me many moons ago. So now I have dual pairs of MM1 on either side of my computer display. One set is hooked up to my 2019 Mac Mini, and the other is hooked up to my 2022 Mac Studio. It's amazing how good these little speakers are - and how small they are. Push the volume a couple of ticks above 50%, and they just open up with absolutely zero strain.

Just a note - these speakers have the Nautilus tube tweeters with a (I believe) 3" driver. But wow, sitting inside the listening triangle, these things sound HUGE!!!! with a wide deep soundstage. Very clean, non-fatiguing, natural mid-tones, great with male and female vocals, and a surprisingly good tight bass extension. If B&W bookshelf speakers sounds as good as these, I would have likely ended up with a pair. Just saying. As it is, I now have two pairs of Revel bookshelf speakers. And to be honest, there are times, because of convenience and a little laziness, I'd rather sit at my desk, look out the window, and just listen to music through these speakers instead of going to the basement to fire up my "Big Rig". ...these are also phenomenal for watching movies and Marvel/Star Wars series on a 32" computer display at my desk.

I have to keep this real short, as I'm supposed to be getting ready to photograph a wedding 5 hours from my house tomorrow, so leaving in a couple of hours.
If you have any questions about these speakers - hit me up. Hopefully I have answers.

 

[warpdrive]

I had a set of these, but amazingly they won't work in Windows because they never bothered to support them after Windows 7. If you plug these into a modern Windows PC, they aren't detected at all from the USB.

Also strangely, the speaker with the amp in it gets quite warm just sitting there with no input signal.

As for the sound, I guess it sounds ok for something that small. But it's not neutral by any means, but I originally paid something like $350 USD for them while they were in production. I guess if you need really really tiny speakers, there isn't much out there that touches it, but for the price, you could get a much nicer set of speakers that are slightly larger. I have a set of iLoud Micro Monitor which runs rings around them which are also quite tiny. Unlike the MM1, the Micro Monitors are quite neutral, and have actual bass response down to about 50Hz. All in all, the MM1 is not something I would recommend in any shape or form

 

[HarmonicTHD]

...since I brought these speakers up in that "dreaded Utopia/KEF R3 thread", I couldn't help myself. I just bought a second pair ($260 + $18 for shipping), which is about half the price for these speakers new. I bought this pair for my second computer. They replace a pair of Bose Companion 2 series III speakers that were gifted to me many moons ago. So now I have dual pairs of MM1 on either side of my computer display. One set is hooked up to my 2019 Mac Mini, and the other is hooked up to my 2022 Mac Studio. It's amazing how good these little speakers are - and how small they are. Push the volume a couple of ticks above 50%, and they just open up with absolutely zero strain.

Just a note - these speakers have the Nautilus tube tweeters with a (I believe) 3" driver. But wow, sitting inside the listening triangle, these things sound HUGE!!!! with a wide deep soundstage. Very clean, non-fatiguing, natural mid-tones, great with male and female vocals, and a surprisingly good tight bass extension. If B&W bookshelf speakers sounds as good as these, I would have likely ended up with a pair. Just saying. As it is, I now have two pairs of Revel bookshelf speakers. And to be honest, there are times, because of convenience and a little laziness, I'd rather sit at my desk, look out the window, and just listen to music through these speakers instead of going to the basement to fire up my "Big Rig". ...these are also phenomenal for watching movies and Marvel/Star Wars series on a 32" computer display at my desk.

I have to keep this real short, as I'm supposed to be getting ready to photograph a wedding 5 hours from my house tomorrow, so leaving in a couple of hours.
If you have any questions about these speakers - hit me up. Hopefully I have answers.

Could you post some actual facts to why the speaker sounds as it allegedly does?

 

[jonfitch]

These are the nicest looking desktop speakers ever. Really the first time I think a company managed to out-Apple Apple with a lifestyle product. Also it's hard to mess up a 1" tweeter and a 3" mid, the directivity is basically perfect with no real tweaking needed. I wish B&W would update this model with the amp from the Formation Flex, which is a much larger speaker (with no aux input, BT only), that fixes both passive noise and heat issues.

The MM1 was one of the first generation desktop products by B&W and has this horriblely loud passive hiss that was fixed in later generations of the Zeppelin as well as the Formation Flex. The main reason I sold it is I just couldn't stand the background noise when no music was playing.

 

[Bren Derlin]

These are the nicest looking desktop speakers ever. Really the first time I think a company managed to out-Apple Apple with a lifestyle product. Also it's hard to mess up a 1" tweeter and a 3" mid, the directivity is basically perfect with no real tweaking needed. I wish B&W would update this model with the amp from the Formation Flex, which is a much larger speaker (with no aux input, BT only), that fixes both passive noise and heat issues.

The MM1 was one of the first generation desktop products by B&W and has this horriblely loud passive hiss that was fixed in later generations of the Zeppelin as well as the Formation Flex. The main reason I sold it is I just couldn't stand the background noise when no music was playing.

I now have two sets of these speakers with no hiss from either set.

If the first set had a hiss, I would have sold those as well, nor would I have bought a set pair.

 

[jonfitch]

I now have two sets of these speakers with no hiss from either set.

If the first set had a hiss, I would have sold those as well, nor would I have bought a set pair.

That would be interesting to measure the background noise for sure, unfortunately I never got that chance as these are way out of production.

A lot of people will swear that there's no hiss from the powered monitors they own from certain brands, even though there are measurements on pro monitors (there's a document on the speakers forum) with measurements that show clearly some of those same brands have way higher passive noise levels than the mean. Individual human hearing and perception curves is certainly an interesting topic.

 

[Bren Derlin]

I had a set of these, but amazingly they won't work in Windows because they never bothered to support them after Windows 7. If you plug these into a modern Windows PC, they aren't detected at all from the USB.

Also strangely, the speaker with the amp in it gets quite warm just sitting there with no input signal.

As for the sound, I guess it sounds ok for something that small. But it's not neutral by any means, but I originally paid something like $350 USD for them while they were in production. I guess if you need really really tiny speakers, there isn't much out there that touches it, but for the price, you could get a much nicer set of speakers that are slightly larger. I have a set of iLoud Micro Monitor which runs rings around them which are also quite tiny. Unlike the MM1, the Micro Monitors are quite neutral, and have actual bass response down to about 50Hz. All in all, the MM1 is not something I would recommend in any shape or form


View attachment 235888

You’re saying they don’t work well with a Windows machine, because Windows refused ti support the speaker? And you sat iLoud runs circles around them? So you’re comparing the iLouds to a flawed a PC set-up? Got it.

 

[Bren Derlin]

That would be interesting to measure the background noise for sure, unfortunately I never got that chance as these are way out of production.

A lot of people will swear that there's no hiss from the powered monitors they own from certain brands, even though there are measurements on pro monitors (there's a document on the speakers forum) with measurements that show clearly some of those same brands have way higher passive noise levels than the mean. Individual human hearing and perception curves is certainly an interesting topic.

It’s electronics. Some people get a computer with excessive fan noise. Others get a totally silent workstation. There will always be variants. Some companies have worse QC than others. I’m lucky my Mac Studio doesn’t have fan noise. One of my laptops was intolerable.

 

[warpdrive]

You’re saying they don’t work well with a Windows machine, because Windows refused ti support the speaker? And you sat iLoud runs circles around them? So you’re comparing the iLouds to a flawed a PC set-up? Got it.

Nope. I'm saying the MM1 is an inferior speaker, period. When the MM1 stopped working with my Windows machine because I had upgraded the OS Windows 10, I fed them through an external DAC using the aux input. Whether or not I used my own DAC or its USB input (when it was working), it is a mediocre speaker.

Here on this forum, people have a high standard of what is a "good speaker" and this is not it. I did run some sweeps using REW at the time I had it, and it was not pretty.

If you are so adamant about how good it is, maybe you can send it to Amir and have it measured. Then that would end all doubt whether it's a worthwhile speaker to buy or not.

(These speakers came out in 2010, and Windows 10 came out in 2015. What kind of lame company doesn't support their speaker after 5 years?)

 

[Bren Derlin]

Do you use a Windows computer?

 

[Bren Derlin]

Here on this forum, people have a high standard of what is a "good speaker" and this is not it.

You were using a speaker that wasn't well supported with the Windows platform, with your high standards, running sweeps, and saying it's inferior. Makes sense.

I can listen to the acoustic version of 'Wish You Well' by Svrcina, 'Kannabi' by Joji Hirota, 'Never Stop Falling In Love' by Pink Martini, 'Nature Boy' by Special EFX, "Hell's Kitchen' by Dream Theater, 'Special Order' by Michael Giacchino, 'Marjoram' by Bert Kaempfert, 'Africa' by Toto, 'Que Sera, Sera' by Hidden Citizens, 'Dreams' by Generdyn, 'Secrets of the Castle' by John Williams (hell, the entire music score from Prisoner of Azkaban), and decide for myself with my own ears — which, I'm doing right now as I write this.

It's the same way I can decide if I like the sound of the Revel M16 and the M106 without looking at measurements. And....I can decide for myself if the KEF R3 was bright and fatiguing without looking at measurements (but damn, I loved that mid bass texture), or the blooming mess that was the Vandersteen VLR Wood without ever having looked at the measurements. If I want to know the details as to why I don't like a speaker over another, the measurements can give me that insight. If I can't actually audition the speakers for myself, the reviews with measurements can give me an idea where to start my search.

Are these greatest speaker ever made? No. No one is saying that. Are these speakers better than others? Hell yes. Are there better speakers than these? Without question. Am I going to lose sleep over it knowing there might be a better speaker out there I haven't heard of? No. I've heard the little iLoud computer speakers. Are they heads and shoulders better than these? Do they run circles around the MM1? Not to me.

By all means, hate the speakers. Tout your "high standards". I'm sitting here, listening to everything, all styles of music, and these little speakers, in a wide near field configuration, are they're just singing. 'Something for the Cat', by Henry Mancini... awesome.

 

[warpdrive]

lol, are you kidding? @HarmonicTHD asked you above to provide some facts about why this is good sounding. I don't see any. This forum relies on measurements to keep us honest, that's what I mean by high standards. Measurements are at the core of the reviews in this forum

So at this point, it's basically my word versus your word about the sound quality. At least I did take some quick measurements at one point which proved to me that this is a mediocre speaker. My ears told me so and it was easy to confirm at the time. I would have kept using it because I already paid for it, and it didn't sound completely terrible, but of course B&W dropped support for Windows which means I couldn't use them in the way I intended. Since I don't have any measurements to provide here for this forum, the only statement I will offer is that I disagree that these are good speakers.

There are lots of speakers in this price range that measure decently and sound good, so why would somebody go out of their way to buy these again? A couple of other B&W products were reviewed here and they were misses especially when factoring the price, so as a brand they don't even have the best track record.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but I would not recommend these. There is no redeeming value in these speakers at all. For others, if you see them on the used market for $80, maybe pick up a set if you want to replace your cheapo computer Logitech computer speakers assuming it's not a Windows PC.

I will disagree that the iLoud MM doesn't run rings around these. There are measurements to show they are a decently neutral speaker as well as the larger MTM model which also performed well. Unless you provide some facts to the contrary, I would say the safer bet is to go buy a set of those instead, you will get a good performing product.

 

[warpdrive]

Since you posted here advocating for these speakers, why not send these to Amir for testing? They aren't large so they are easy to ship. It's way better than me and you arguing about these, which is getting nowhere fast.

You seem adamant that these are great speakers.
I'm adamant these are mediocre.

The data will tell us who's wrong, or maybe we're both wrong somehow. People on this forum can then make up their own minds....based on the science

 

[restorer-john]

Here on this forum, people have a high standard of what is a "good speaker" and this is not it.

Right.

 

[olain]

I had a set of these, but amazingly they won't work in Windows because they never bothered to support them after Windows 7. If you plug these into a modern Windows PC, they aren't detected at all from the USB.

Also strangely, the speaker with the amp in it gets quite warm just sitting there with no input signal.

I've used these speakers as Windows pc monitors for 12 years, I never installed a driver, going from windows 7, 8 and 10, on 5 different Windows computers.
Currently on the newest build of Windows 10 Home x64, Windows automatically installs a Microsoft driver 10.0.19041.1682 from April 2022.
So perhaps you had a faulty unit.

The right-hand speaker does gets hot, but B&W has this listed in their FAQ as normal behaviour.

I must however emphasize that this set of speakers has a very distinct background hiss that is really noticeable in a quiet environment. Its between 6000-7000 hz I'd say.
If you search for this on the interweb, this is well known.
Also it emits a weird midi-melody at times that can be remedied by changing the default sound format to CD-quality (16-bit, 44100 hz ) in the Windows Sound Control panel.

The hiss and the midi-melody can't be heard by everybody, but I can hear both, and my particular hearing isn't that good, I can't hear anything above 8000 hz, and i'm 42.

 

[warpdrive]

I sold them in 2019 for $80. It didn't install a new driver with a completely fresh Windows 10 build on brand new hardware, whereas it worked fine in Windows 7, and 8. I resorted to using an external dongle DAC to feed the AUX so I still got at least 7 years use out of them. I had them plugged into 2015 Macbook for a while too. It was just a meh speaker. In fairness, they were better than the $40 Logitechs I had (seen in this picture, just behind the monitor). I was never overly impressed with them so I bought some Genelec and Dynaudio after

 

[Bren Derlin]

Right.

 

[pjn]

...since I brought these speakers up in that "dreaded Utopia/KEF R3 thread", I couldn't help myself. I just bought a second pair ($260 + $18 for shipping), which is about half the price for these speakers new. I bought this pair for my second computer. They replace a pair of Bose Companion 2 series III speakers that were gifted to me many moons ago. So now I have dual pairs of MM1 on either side of my computer display. One set is hooked up to my 2019 Mac Mini, and the other is hooked up to my 2022 Mac Studio. It's amazing how good these little speakers are - and how small they are. Push the volume a couple of ticks above 50%, and they just open up with absolutely zero strain.

Just a note - these speakers have the Nautilus tube tweeters with a (I believe) 3" driver. But wow, sitting inside the listening triangle, these things sound HUGE!!!! with a wide deep soundstage. Very clean, non-fatiguing, natural mid-tones, great with male and female vocals, and a surprisingly good tight bass extension. If B&W bookshelf speakers sounds as good as these, I would have likely ended up with a pair. Just saying. As it is, I now have two pairs of Revel bookshelf speakers. And to be honest, there are times, because of convenience and a little laziness, I'd rather sit at my desk, look out the window, and just listen to music through these speakers instead of going to the basement to fire up my "Big Rig". ...these are also phenomenal for watching movies and Marvel/Star Wars series on a 32" computer display at my desk.

I have to keep this real short, as I'm supposed to be getting ready to photograph a wedding 5 hours from my house tomorrow, so leaving in a couple of hours.
If you have any questions about these speakers - hit me up. Hopefully I have answers.

Count me as someone who likes these over (~11 years use) - based on REW, they do have noticeable distortion/decay problems at 711 and 1.44 k (the latter not a harmonic), as well as some lower frequencies and not much bass below 100 Hz, but as very small computer desktop speakers I find them pretty acceptable. I've not found anything with the small 3-d footprint that looks good. Although, I will admit, I've not tried very hard. And, at the volume settings I use, the distortion isn't audible with music.

Added - the Genelec One's look rather competitive... except for price!

 

[Bren Derlin]

Count me as someone who likes these over (~11 years use) - based on REW, they do have noticeable distortion/decay problems at 711 and 1.44 k (the latter not a harmonic), as well as some lower frequencies and not much bass below 100 Hz, but as very small computer desktop speakers I find them pretty acceptable. I've not found anything with the small 3-d footprint that looks good. Although, I will admit, I've not tried very hard. And, at the volume settings I use, the distortion isn't audible with music.

Added - the Genelec One's look rather competitive... except for price!

The bass lacks a bit when the speakers are placed on desktop stands. When placed on my desktop, the bass is much more pronounced - though not entirely boomy or flabby. The overall sound just digs a bit deeper. No, it doesn't sound like I have a subwoofer, nor do I want a subwoofer at my computer, but the bass is still very satisfying — especially for such a small speaker.

I don't play my MM1 speakers at ear splitting volume - but I do give them a bit of juice usually a bit over 60%, maybe 70%. I mean, I'm sitting about 18-20" from the front plane between the speakers, so it doesn't take much for sound to open up from my listening position.

 

[pjn]

I've used these speakers as Windows pc monitors for 12 years, I never installed a driver, going from windows 7, 8 and 10, on 5 different Windows computers.
Currently on the newest build of Windows 10 Home x64, Windows automatically installs a Microsoft driver 10.0.19041.1682 from April 2022.
So perhaps you had a faulty unit.

The right-hand speaker does gets hot, but B&W has this listed in their FAQ as normal behaviour.

I must however emphasize that this set of speakers has a very distinct background hiss that is really noticeable in a quiet environment. Its between 6000-7000 hz I'd say.
If you search for this on the interweb, this is well known.
Also it emits a weird midi-melody at times that can be remedied by changing the default sound format to CD-quality (16-bit, 44100 hz ) in the Windows Sound Control panel.

The hiss and the midi-melody can't be heard by everybody, but I can hear both, and my particular hearing isn't that good, I can't hear anything above 8000 hz, and i'm 42.

I've had a pair of MM1s since they came out - I don't use them that much since I moved from an office to home. I've never noticed the hiss, but I feed them through a DAC (Schiit Modius). My subjective rating -
Appearance 5* (wonderfully compact and looks classy)
Sound 3* (lacks bass but pretty decent nearfield - about 2 ft from my head)
Ease of setup 5* (on a Mac)
Remote 1* (really a bit dismal and not terribly useful if attached to a computer)

Price - OK, given the elegant appearance, a bit high for sound quality