Both DAC are transparent as measures by Amir, why one not as clean sounding as the other?

[b4nt]

How are you positioning mics relative to the speakers?

Too close, I beleive. For a previous record, poorly alligned and with a 17k limited mic, I mainly got the med/bass. For the last one, bit more away, something was wrong with the bass; due to distance and alignement, I guess.

From the last record I took, using 20-20k mics, one may mainly listen to meds and trebles. I wasn't willing to accuratly record the full track rendering, but details inside the audio, upto 20k.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Those are the two pages I found so far for the D30 pro. But in Chinese:
- tech details (not all) https://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=348&t=6342681
- LFP op amps swap out (wondering why they did that) https://ptt.reviews/Headphone/M.1621233583.A.861

What I could not see, is what are those chips:

View attachment 145072

Hmm, for the first link, the guy seems very familiar with DAC design. He still let the DAC burn in for 2 weeks before listening.....

: )



...............................................................
Latest summary of comparing original test song:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...clean-sounding-as-the-other.24778/post-861227


Comparing another 2 minutes song:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...clean-sounding-as-the-other.24778/post-861652

 

[b4nt]

Hmm, for the first link, the guy seems very familiar with DAC design. He still let the DAC burn in for 2 weeks before listening.....

: )

And according to translations I could get using Google, he swapped the op amps cause he doesn't "like them too much" in LFP stage...

 

[b4nt]

How are you positioning mics relative to the speakers?

For best practice, for two way speakers and stereo, I could need 4 mics, and mix, I won't have them.

 

[Blumlein 88]

For best practice, for two way speakers and stereo, I could need 4 mics, and mix, I won't have them.

View attachment 145076

Well I should have asked positioning of mics and what speakers. You'll need at least 4x the woofer diameter away from the speakers to let the sound even out between drivers. Maybe a little bit more than that.

I don't know I would use the method of those pictures. If you want to, put a soft tick sound at the beginning of the track for alignment. Play the track for two channels then repeat for the other two channels and mix the proper balance.

 

[Pdxwayne]

And according to translations I could get using Google, he swapped the op amps cause he doesn't "like them too much" in LFP stage...

This is the clock parts from the first link:

........
使用Altera CPLD 5M80ZE64C5N作CLK&數位訊號重整，控制的MCU使用ST STM32F030R6T6
運氣不好拿到兩顆都rework的板子，我是能接受rework但好歹也清一下flux吧= ="

...............



Interesting that the author said both items mentioned are reworked items. I wonder what reworked meant. How would one know it those are reworked? Also, what cleaning the "flux" meant?







.............................................................
Latest summary of comparing original test song:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...clean-sounding-as-the-other.24778/post-861227


Comparing another 2 minutes song:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...clean-sounding-as-the-other.24778/post-861652

 

[b4nt]

I don't know I would use the method of those pictures. If you want to, put a soft tick sound at the beginning of the track for alignment. Play the track for two channels then repeat for the other two channels and mix the proper balance.

This is now another rush/attempt with two mics close to a single speaker, one for tweeter, one for med, mics at approx 10cm distance: https://transfert.free.fr/download/jkzfJBLRrh2XxRr8qwzMt5J3qg

I beleive I could now tweak so mics positions and distances, up to something better. I never use EQ or tone control during payback. That track renders with some loud bass I do have troubles with, for recording.

So this is again representative of the D50s I'm happy with, for all the details I get out of tracks.

@Pdxwayne Should be less dull so, less short in bass also (I didn't EQ that rush). But would need a down mix to mono. In one channel, you have mainly tweeter, in the other, mainly bass/med. File being named "Split2Way". At home, you may perhaps simply play as stereo and use your balance, to equilibrate a bit (not much) the left/right records.

 

[b4nt]

@Blumlein 88 That being the test track I used. On my side, I think my record is now pretty close. The other channel of the D50s working the same.

Edit... the voice seems also some how a bit away in my record (I don't have balance here to check) (or is this due to mono single channel effect?). I'd have to tweak the mics positions and methods, I guess. Won't do that

 

[b4nt]

This is the clock parts from the first link:

........
使用Altera CPLD 5M80ZE64C5N作CLK&數位訊號重整，控制的MCU使用ST STM32F030R6T6
運氣不好拿到兩顆都rework的板子，我是能接受rework但好歹也清一下flux吧= ="

...............



Interesting that the author said both items mentioned are reworked items. I wonder what reworked meant. How would one know it those are reworked? Also, what cleaning the "flux" meant?







.............................................................
Latest summary of comparing original test song:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...clean-sounding-as-the-other.24778/post-861227


Comparing another 2 minutes song:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...clean-sounding-as-the-other.24778/post-861652

The OP shall perhaps be more interested in pins I see here? The output of the DAC/LPF, going to lines drivers.

A tweak could consist of cutting such traces, and connect an alternate lines driver. This is MAYBE what you could need to do for hiss and such noises renderings to meet your taste.

 

[Pdxwayne]

This is now another rush/attempt with two mics close to a single speaker, one for tweeter, one for med, mics at approx 10cm distance: https://transfert.free.fr/download/jkzfJBLRrh2XxRr8qwzMt5J3qg

I beleive I could now tweak so mics positions and distances, up to something better. I never use EQ or tone control during payback. That track renders with some loud bass I do have troubles with, for recording.

So this is again representative of the D50s I'm happy with, for all the details I get out of tracks.

@Pdxwayne Should be less dull so, less short in bass also (I didn't EQ that rush). But would need a down mix to mono. In one channel, you have mainly tweeter, in the other, mainly bass/med. File being named "Split2Way". At home, you may perhaps simply play as stereo and use your balance, to equilibrate a bit (not much) the left/right records.

Yes, it is less dull. You have nice highs in your latest recording.

The main thing that is still lacking is bass. Not easy to replicate the bass that one can hear in headphones in a speaker setup.




.............................................................
Latest summary of comparing original test song:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...clean-sounding-as-the-other.24778/post-861227


Comparing another 2 minutes song:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...clean-sounding-as-the-other.24778/post-861652

 

[b4nt]

Yes, it is less dull. You have nice highs in your latest recording.

The main thing that is still lacking is bass. Not easy to replicate the bass that one can hear in headphones in a speaker setup.

Meds and bass are here also correct (43Hz limited bookshelfs), but more complex to record. I should have:
- first down mixed stereo track to mono
- used two mics, tweaking, to record tweeter and med
- down mixed the record to mono

But main point being highs are nice in the last records I took, using 20-20k mics. Recording those was the easy part. I beleive highs are the most demanding for a DAC (fast transients).

 

[b4nt]

@Pdxwayne PS: I'm using those bookshelfs as others would use headphones. I'm one meter away.

 

[Blumlein 88]

@Blumlein 88 That being the test track I used. On my side, I think my record is now pretty close. The other channel of the D50s working the same.

Edit... the voice seems also some how a bit away in my record (I don't have balance here to check) (or is this due to mono single channel effect?). I'd have to tweak the mics positions and methods, I guess. Won't do that

This is much closer. I just put it into Audacity, split stereo to a pair of mono tracks. So both channels come out of each speaker. I adjusted the tweeter part upward about 2 db. Next dropped the bass by -4 db. This gave a balance at first blush much closer to the video link. Then I mixed and rendered the two tracks into a mono track.

If you can put this in DW against the original, the Delta of Spectrum would give the frequency balance differences and you could adjust this more precisely.

 

[b4nt]

If you can put this in DW against the original, the Delta of Spectrum would give the frequency balance differences and you could adjust this more precisely.

I thought putting such outputs into DW. But I am not sure it would have any sense. It would be the full chain, DAC, amp, speakers, mics, recorder, mix quality, ADC quality (without any EQ or DSP in the chain). Any delta in mix done between tweeter/med would be plotted as a huge error by DW.

About tweaking, I'll say no. I hadn't such an objective. I was just willing to show a D50s can perform very well. In the records I took using 20k capable mics, all highs shall be very correct. Meds/bass are worther, but this is only because of the job I've done.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I thought putting such outputs into DW. But I am not sure it would have any sense. It would be the full chain, DAC, amp, speakers, mics, recorder, mix quality, ADC quality (without any EQ or DSP in the chain). Any delta in mix done between tweeter/med would be plotted as a huge error by DW.

About tweaking, I'll say no. I hadn't such an objective. I was just willing to show a D50s can perform very well. In the records I took using 20k capable mics, all highs shall be very correct. Meds/bass are worther, but this is only because of the job I've done.

I've sometimes got such things to work in DW, sometimes it can't time align everything.
I can do it otherwise where you don't need precise time alignment to determine relative frequency response if I had the original file to work with.

 

[Blumlein 88]

You can download what I did adjusting and combining them here as a mono wav file.
https://www.filemail.com/d/zuftvxkkzkkzbml

 

[b4nt]

This is much closer. I just put it into Audacity, split stereo to a pair of mono tracks. So both channels come out of each speaker. I adjusted the tweeter part upward about 2 db. Next dropped the bass by -4 db. This gave a balance at first blush much closer to the video link. Then I mixed and rendered the two tracks into a mono track.

I've sometimes got such things to work in DW, sometimes it can't time align everything.
I can do it otherwise where you don't need precise time alignment to determine relative frequency response if I had the original file to work with.

During recording, I was mainly taking care about clipping, to avoid it. To get a "picture", a clean record, whatever it was.

Depending, you may take and keep this all for any further usages and trials. Comparing to the channel I used, yes, a delta can be defined, for next steps, and recording tweaks. You have so the reference file from YT and the last recording I shared.

Later, it might highly depend on other parameters (distortion, IMD), as this is the full chain. I assume speakers (and mics) can add a lot....

 

[b4nt]

You can download what I did adjusting and combining them here as a mono wav file.
https://www.filemail.com/d/zuftvxkkzkkzbml

I listened. Levels seem better. But there is still something muffled in the bass/med region (my fault) compared to the original track (refering to YT audio).

The record method I used the last is the way to go, one mic per speaker, mics being close to. Position of the mics TBD/to be tweaked to get out the best record quality. During recording, I was mixing the mics, to listen, writing mics to separate tracks.

That would need some trials and tweaks of mics positions and levels (do not clip) untill records would be the best to feed DW.

 

[b4nt]

Any way, @JohnYang1997 @Pdxwayne @Blumlein 88 I used top end equipments, including top end microphones, recorder an speakers. Highs and more and my D50s are perfect. My recent records show a muffled bass/meds (but very good highs)? What is wrong with the D50s? This could only point to my own incorrect acquisition/measurement methods

 

[Pdxwayne]

Any way, @JohnYang1997 @Pdxwayne @Blumlein 88 I used top end equipments, including top end microphones, recorder an speakers. Highs and more and my D50s are perfect. My recent records show a muffled bass/meds (but very good highs)? What is wrong with the D50s? This could only point to my own incorrect acquisition/measurement methods


View attachment 145119

What exactly is top end?
: )

Anyway, brand and model of your speakers? Your amp?





.............................................................
Latest summary of comparing original test song:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...clean-sounding-as-the-other.24778/post-861227


Comparing another 2 minutes song:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...clean-sounding-as-the-other.24778/post-861652