Bookshelf speakers for low volume & near-field listening?

[Freeway]

I have been listening to Revel M105 for a couple months now in my small room, 12' x 11', very nearfield. One of the unexpected and welcome surprises is how well they play low volume.
Another interesting note is using the supplied port plugs to fine tune the bass volume.
If I want to disturb the neighbors or irritate my family I either turn on the subwoofer and/or switch to my ATC SCM7 v.3.
Have Technics SB-C700 coming in a week. Those should be interesting.
Also very curious about Focal Aria 906.

 

[b4nt]

Another interesting note is using the supplied port plugs to fine tune the bass volume.

That is a problem with small rooms, speakers shall be at a minimal distance from the wall, for the bass. And for the scene, you shall sit at a minimal distance...

Then you must also raise and orient the speakers, to align med/tweeter for an optimal sound. For this, I found big adjustable "MS-1 stands" which also decouple the bookshelfs from the desk.

 

[Kachda]

It’s very interesting to see people posting against measurements and claiming tuning by ear is best in the audiosciencereview forum.

 

[dc655321]

It depends on the system, that is; how your room and speakers interact.

Remember that I can craft my “furniture” in such a way that your “ruler flat” speakers wouldn’t make any discernible signal on top of the racket my room and “furniture” “generates”.

If you did not understand the question, I can try to rephrase it.

 

[b4nt]

It’s very interesting to see people posting against measurements and claiming tuning by ear is best in the audiosciencereview forum.

I do not tune with my ears, but with buttons.

 

[Haint]

Yeah this and the Revel M16 were on my list then I thought why not go for something a bit more expensive lol.
Thanks anyway!

The Chora is Focal's mainstream line and would be considered a direct competitor to the M16, Debut Reference, and KEF Q-Series in terms of model tier hierarchy. The M16's cabinet quality and finish are objectively a model tier above the Chora, Q-Series, or DBR (subjective aesthetic design preference not withstanding), but I can't comment on the drivers, tweeters, or crossovers (perhaps Revel spent the bulk of their BoM on the cab while the others invested in components). Regardless, you would need to step up to the Focal Aria range to get something "more expensive" (which I assume implies higher quality components and build quality).

 

[Sakelccc]

The Chora is Focal's mainstream line and would be considered a direct competitor to the M16, Debut Reference, and KEF Q-Series in terms of model tier hierarchy. The M16's cabinet quality and finish are objectively a model tier above the Chora, Q-Series, or DBR (subjective aesthetic design preference not withstanding), but I can't comment on the drivers, tweeters, or crossovers (perhaps Revel spent the bulk of their BoM on the cab while the others invested in components). Regardless, you would need to step up to the Focal Aria range to get something "more expensive" (which I assume implies higher quality components and build quality).

I agree. the chora and aria measure pretty similar though:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/focal-aria-906-speaker-review.14085/page-22
not sure if the aria is worth its extra money ($600 more here) as the chora looks fine by me.

 

[Freeway]

That is a problem with small rooms, speakers shall be at a minimal distance from the wall, for the bass. And for the scene, you shall sit at a minimal distance...

Then you must also raise and orient the speakers, to align med/tweeter for an optimal sound. For this, I found big adjustable "MS-1 stands" which also decouple the bookshelfs from the desk.

Yeah, limited and restricted.
MS-1 stands are interesting but floor stands not a option for me. Got some IsoAcoustic ISO. Nice to raise a couple inches. The higher legs very unstable.
I tune by my wife's ear. Not very scientific.

 

[Sakelccc]

I have been listening to Revel M105 for a couple months now in my small room, 12' x 11', very nearfield. One of the unexpected and welcome surprises is how well they play low volume.
Another interesting note is using the supplied port plugs to fine tune the bass volume.
If I want to disturb the neighbors or irritate my family I either turn on the subwoofer and/or switch to my ATC SCM7 v.3.
Have Technics SB-C700 coming in a week. Those should be interesting.
Also very curious about Focal Aria 906.

Very interested in the Technics! hope they will sound good and if so please tell me lol.

 

[Haint]

I agree. the chora and aria measure pretty similar though:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/focal-aria-906-speaker-review.14085/page-22
not sure if the aria is worth its extra money ($600 more here) as the chora looks fine by me.

Yep that's the question. In terms of sound quality when given seemingly competent designs, it's debatable any of them are "worth it" over the cheapest of the bunch.

 

[Marc v E]

@Sakelccc In my experience the difference beteen speakers is in implementation of knowledge. Not how much they cost.
The genelecs 8030 measure well and sound brilliant imo. I have them on a desk in a small room with the topping dx7pro. Only negative is that they are powered and you said you are looking for a passive speaker.
Based on my experience with how happy I am with recommendations from amir I would recommend you Revel speakers.

 

[b4nt]

I tune my by wife's ear. Not very scientific.

I don't care that much either. Usually, I'm sitting too close, but have a nice detailed audio that way. For some titles, I leave the keyboard, move back, align, listen.

The best speakers for this would have bass/med/tweeters centered and oriented to ears. But I'm not sure they would sound the best.

I was skeptical but those stands are very stable, apropriate for big bookshelfs.

 

[Sakelccc]

@Sakelccc In my experience the difference beteen speakers is in implementation of knowledge. Not how much they cost.
The genelecs 8030 measure well and sound brilliant imo. I have them on a desk in a small room with the topping dx7pro. Only negative is that they are powered and you said you are looking for a passive speaker.
Based on my experience with how happy I am with recommendations from amir I would recommend you Revel speakers.

That's rational and i've no doubt cheap Elacs and Revels could measure and sound very good.
Thing is design plays a big part for me so I'm happy to pay a few hundreds more for a good look (nothing against Revels though)

 

[Offler]

lol no please do continue and i think i've made up my mind to go for the KEFs anyway.
(it's a man btw)

If you mean KEF R3, i have been checking them lately as they have score of 6.5.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/kef-r3-speaker-review.12021/

The data look amazing, but i havent heard those. In the end 1000 euro was my entire budget.

I got my DBR-62s in a discount for just 350 euro (about 430 dollars) for a pair, and since they are connected to a PC, i use EQ profiles to improve their sound to score 6.4.

Usually you either do a lot of compromises and get way too cheap equipment, or you have to go all in to get the best, somehow i managed to get best of both worlds.

 

[FeddyLost]

Thing is design plays a big part for me so I'm happy to pay a few hundreds more for a good look

There are two more issues
1) if you need to listen routinely at low spl, you can think about speaker with "loudness contour FR" like Dali
2) in real nearfield use case directivity is not so much important due to dominant direct sound

If you are in Japan, try to get for audition discontinued Fostex NF-1 passive monitors with hyperbolic paraboloid woofer. They are very nice and cohesive sounding due to almost wideband woofer, 1st order crossover and geometrical time alignment. Low efficiency is not an issue for nearfield.
More expensive Fostex GX hi-fi series looks better and also worth auditioning.

 

[abdo123]

2) in real nearfield use case directivity is not so much important due to dominant direct sound

This is really incorrect because when you move your head/seat in a near field setup you move several degrees more than you would move in a far-field setup. So good directivity is as important if not more important in a near-field setup.

the ratio of direct/reflected sound is also maximized with speakers with controlled directivity because the sound arriving at the side walls will be lower in amplitude than direct sound.

 

[FeddyLost]

So good directivity is as important if not more important in a near-field setup.

I'm not really sure about that. It depends on exact use case.
Typically, +- 15 degrees horizontally all is equal and side reflections might be absorbed or diffused.
Anyway, I just meant that strict sticking to coax designs is not worth it if one is sitting in 1 m triangle. There are another options.

 

[abdo123]

Anyway, I just meant that strict sticking to coax designs is not worth it if one is sitting in 1 m triangle. There are another options.

I don't see you providing any arguments to reply to the points I raised earlier, so i will just move on.

it's not just about directivity, sound in nature comes from a single point origin, instruments do that as well.

non-coaxial Speakers are innately unnatural because sound is coming from different sources, this can be audible specially at crossover regions where our ability to localize sound is typically at its most sensitive there.

it's not a mystery that Genelec flagship speakers are all coaxial, making coaxial designs work was the breakthrough of this millennia.

 

[dominikz]

it's not just about directivity, sound in nature comes from a single point origin, instruments do that as well.

In my understanding of the subject this is not entirely true - though the source of original vibration may be relatively small, it is rarely a point source. Natural sound sources also have secondary sources of sound radiation. E.g. on a piano the bat hitting a string will be the main source (still not a point though since the whole string vibrates in a complex way) but the body of the instrument will also resonate and radiate sound. Here's an example of some investigation into this that I was able to find quickly.
Real instruments / sound sources typically also have complex sound radiation patterns that are probably futile to try and mimic with loudspeakers - I'm not even sure that would be a valid design goal - given that the full 3D soundfield of the instrument was never captured in the first place when recording it.
That is not meant to say that coaxial loudspeakers are not good or better - just that I don't believe we can directly extrapolate from natural sound sources when speaking of speakers (pun intended ).

 

[FeddyLost]

non-coaxial Speakers are innately unnatural because sound is coming from different sources

That's why I recommended to find out Fostex NF1 passive. They are in fact wideband woofer + time aligned 20 mm tweeter after 10 KHz.
I think they can be found in Japan much cheaper than i.e. KEF LS50 Meta (good passive coax solution).
I've heard NF1 personally, and they are absolutely OK in terms of phase issues like soundstaging, depth, etc.
I prefer to give more options for choise. Not all people find those point source/constant phase options beneficial enough to pay over something simpler.