Best process to optimise a 2.2 system in an AVR with Audyssey and Dirac

[CapMan]

Hi All

Sorry if this as been asked already - couldn't find the specific answer elsewhere.

I have a new Denon 4800 AVR and want to run a calibration for a 2.2 set up for both Audyssey and Dirac.

In my previous set up I have used REW, MSO and the subs inbuilt PEQ to flatten the subs first.

Question - should I try to EQ the dual subs to flattest response in the same way BEFORE I run Audyssey X32/Dirac , OR should I let these products do this for me...

 

[peng]

Hi All

Sorry if this as been asked already - couldn't find the specific answer elsewhere.

I have a new Denon 4800 AVR and want to run a calibration for a 2.2 set up for both Audyssey and Dirac.

In my previous set up I have used REW, MSO and the subs inbuilt PEQ to flatten the subs first.

Question - should I try to EQ the dual subs to flattest response in the same way BEFORE I run Audyssey X32/Dirac , OR should I let these products do this for me...

People have different opinions for sure. In my opinion, while it may fun trying to all kinds of things such as minissp, MSO, REW etc., but I highly doubt one can tell whether those efforts may help improve the "sound" as that is highly subjective and is impossible to tell without doing some series DBT. And, in my experience, a few hours work on tweaking with the $20 app, a Denon AVR can achieve very flat bass response with the subs and the front speakers with the subs, then it is easy to put a tilt (or aka Harman curve) to suit your taste. So unless you love to play and have the time, just let those product do it for you. And you can always spend just a few minutes to tweak the target curves, save a few of them for instant comparison.

 

[SDC]

Dirac in x4800h flattens the fr of each subwoofer.
But there is no dlbc and art for further processing yet.

So run dirac first and than use external dsp to invert, align, and eq.

At least thats the way I went.

 

[popej]

So run dirac first and than use external dsp to invert, align, and eq.

Not the other way around? I mean first tune external DSP and make all subs work the best, then run dirac to integrate subs with all speakers.

 

[SDC]

Not the other way around? I mean first tune external DSP and make all subs work the best, then run dirac to integrate subs with all speakers.

It depends on the way one tunes their subs. I flatten the response first so use dirac to do it for me.
But aligning first and than flattening overall response also works.

 

[peng]

Dirac in x4800h flattens the fr of each subwoofer.
But there is no dlbc and art for further processing yet.

So run dirac first and than use external dsp to invert, align, and eq.

At least thats the way I went.

Just "flatness", Audyssey can do fine. Below is a comparison of the two. I only used DLBC briefly during the beta trial so I am sure the results would have been much better if I had spent more time tweaking it. Still, Audyssey can achieve flattened bass too, from 15 to 300 Hz as shown in my graph. The DLBC curve was "after tweaked" too, without the tweaks, the dips in the 45 to 65 Hz range was a lot worse. I could say which one sounded better, to me they were close enough.

I did measure serval other mid positions, mmp looked the best as expected, in either case.

 

[SDC]

Just "flatness", Audyssey can do fine. Below is a comparison of the two. I only used DLBC briefly during the beta trial so I am sure the results would have been much better if I had spent more time tweaking it. Still, Audyssey can achieve flattened bass too, from 15 to 300 Hz as shown in my graph. The DLBC curve was "after tweaked" too, without the tweaks, the dips in the 45 to 65 Hz range was a lot worse. I could say which one sounded better, to me they were close enough.

I did measure serval other mid positions, mmp looked the best as expected, in either case.


View attachment 312606

Never tried audyssey as I bought dirac at day one...

But result sure looks good!

 

[popej]

I flatten the response first so use dirac to do it for me.

Do you apply external correction with dirac active? How does it work at crossover frequency and above for subs?

 

[SDC]

Do you apply external correction with dirac active? How does it work at crossover frequency and above for subs?

I don't have minidsp so I use dsp plate amp of arendal for external dsp

First I flatten all four at listening position with dirac and apply it to AV reciever.

Than I Invert the phase of two arendal subwoofer using plate amp setting.

Add delay using avr manual setting so woofer cancel out each other. The amount applied is determined using LFE measurement of REW.

This way I get smooth response in my room with minimal tool.

Measure your C50 in REW and tell us how your bass sounds!

100%. Room modes at 105, 120 and 140. Creates a gigantic mess with the fundamentals and the harmonics. Mid bass was a mess. Takes many, many very thick traps to get it under control and even then, still not even close to where I'd like it. Keep in mind, that we do not hear with the ears, but...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Edit

Because I use LFE channel for subwoofer tuneing. Response over crossover is just there without high cut.

Integration with mains are automatically done by reciever.

 

[popej]

Because I use LFE channel for subwoofer tuneing. Response over crossover is just there without high cut.

That's true.

Than I Invert the phase of two arendal subwoofer using plate amp setting.

Add delay using avr manual setting so woofer cancel out each other.

I expect that phase correction at crossover frequency is a part of Dirac processing (just a guess). Delay is measured and compensated by any calibration method. I would be cautious to change any of these after calibration. Anyway, you can run Dirac again, just in case

 

[SDC]

That's true.


I expect that phase correction at crossover frequency is a part of Dirac processing (just a guess). Delay is measured and compensated by any calibration method. I would be cautious to change any of these after calibration. Anyway, you can run Dirac again, just in case

Yes. Each subwoofers are flat, phase corrected, and time compensated after dirac.

But that doesn't mean the sum of four is too.

There are several methods to sum the subs as you also know.

In my case, simple summing didn't work. Ended up with not smooth in room distribution of bass and jagged decay results.

So my next choice was to invert the rear to creat double bass array-ish setup. And worked for me like the result shows.

I recommend starting with dirac 'cause correcting each subs are time consuming and hard. Dirac does that part perfectly.

I think Audyssey will also do it as well, so no need to pay a ton for dirac if Audyssey works!

But that is my way of handling subs.

So there can be lot more! I would love to see more methods and it's results