Best AVR Pre Amp/Processer?

[Fahzz]

New here - Happy New Year to all.

I'm running a Pioneer Elite VSX 80 AVR, using the pre outs to drive a Parasound external amplifier for the front channels in a 5.1 configuration. Digital music source is an Allo Digione Player with Logitech Music Server through the coaxial input, so phono stage is irrelevant to me. I can't see myself ever needing more than nine channels, and seven is plenty. Music is as important to me as TV/Video Steaming, maybe more so.
I want to upgrade the AVR, at this point probably for the last time, and I'd like to hear about any AVR's that would stand out in the pre amp/processing area for my set up. I've read a lot of the posts on these forums, and I apologize if this one is redundant. I understand some of the technical information on this site, and I agree with the premise that if something measures well, it should sound good, but I'm at a loss concerning the significance of the testing results to my needs.
I'd like to say price is not a factor, but that would be a big fat lie. Having said that, anything reasonable in price would be considered. Example: I'll never buy a Porsche 911, but I loved my Audi A4 Quattro.
Thoughts, advice, suggestions, welcome and appreciated.

 

[Vasr]

I agree with the premise that if something measures well, it should sound good, but I'm at a loss concerning the significance of the testing results to my needs.

More like if something measures good, it shouldn't sound bad. But even that is a weak correlation since the speakers and how the rest of chain matches up with it as well as your prior "conditioning" of what good sound is influences whether you will like them or not.

Or you could say the heck with it, buy the highest SINAD you can afford and get "conditioned" to whatever it produces or if not possible consider the problem being you. Works for some.

Personally, I would go for things that are well-built from a company that has a history of building robust, problem free units and ones that have convenient features.

The simplest and least perturbing update for you is to replace your AVR with a Denon 3-series. With external Parasound for the mains, this should not constrain your sound in any way and it will be fairly close to what you hear now if you are comfortable with that sound.

Anything beyond that becomes either spec chasing or dealing with some unknowns.

One combination that would give maximum potential for future upgrades is
1. Monoprice HTP-1 Pre/Pro (or if you can wait for the Anthem AVM 70 to see if it is a good competitor in being trouble-free and without broken stuff)
2. Existing Parasound 2-ch + Audio Control Avalon G4 in 3-ch mode for a 5.x (Can be upgraded to 7.x with a single monoblock and the G4 in 4 channel mode).

 

[Fahzz]

Thanks. You mention the Denon 3 Series. Is 4 Series a step up? X4500 is same price as X3700 online @ Crutchfield.

 

[Dimifoot]

Monoprice HTP-1

 

[Vasr]

Thanks. You mention the Denon 3 Series. Is 4 Series a step up? X4500 is same price as X3700 online @ Crutchfield.

That is like asking whether you should buy a current gen 3-series Bimmer or an older gen 4-series at the same price. Depends on personal needs.

The 3-series gives 99% of what the Denon AVRs are capable of and needed. It is the lowest model that can be used as a pre/pro if one wishes to go that path now or later and the top tier Audyssey room correction. The remaining differences are marginal and depends on requirements and involves trade-offs. For example, if external amplification is used, the power increment in 4-series will be moot (and it isn't much to start with). The current gen 3-series will give better video processing than the previous gen 4-series if that is relevant to your needs, etc. So, you can do a feature comparision and see what is relevant and what isn't for you. The x3600h often sold at $900 would be the best bang for the buck when available for the value-conscious.

Going above the 3-series is most relevant for people who would never consider (or have space for) more than one box.

 

[Chrispy]

Biggest differences in going from Denon X3xxx to X4xxx or higher series is mostly about amplification and processing capabilities, perhaps abilities to limit what goes on when using pre-outs. I think they all work well, tho.

 

[Golfx]

For me the Denon AVR a110 was an Easy purchase decision. Sounds superb. I upgraded from Marantz's SR 8012. The A110 is uptuned from Denon's flagship x8500h which tested the highest in bench quality numbers among all current AVRs on this website. I expect this model to match or exceed those numbers when tested. Plus this model lets you shut off its internal amps, by channel individually, using amp assign. (This is in addition to the new preamp mode which "disconnects"all internal channel amps). This further improves SINAD numbers on those chosen channels when using preouts for external amps. Denon also extended the warranty from 3 to 5 years which translates as better expected reliability. Reliability is so important on these complex machines. Regarding the new 8k chip update possibly being flawed for Xbox gamers, it is not an issue because you can use eARC to return atmos etc back to the Denon from apps native to your 4k-8k tvs or hdmi devices connected to your 8k tv. I also toyed with the idea of waiting for Anthem's new AVM90 but it includes no way of streaming hi resolution amazon music hd at 24/192. I would have to buy bluesound's node 2i at $550 to do what Denon's internal HEOS app does superbly already. Anthem's new models will likely be buggy for a few months like their AVM60 was. By the way, the potential SINAD bench numbers on this Denon are likely so good I'm intending on just using this as an 8k capable prepro.

 

[ZolaIII]

How about going the other way? Amplifier if you need one & PC sound card as a front end? It probably won't be your last processor and I know PC is inconvenient so just a suggestion.

 

[Bear123]

For me the Denon AVR a110 was an Easy purchase decision.

Tech specs are sure interesting, especially the first category: Acoustic System......
Oh really?

 

[Fahzz]

Thanks to you members for giving me you insights. You've confirmed what I've found.
There seems to be a pretty big price gap between very good AVR's $1000 to $1500 (Denon 3000's and 4000's/Anthem etc.) and separates (AV pre pro and 5 or 7 channel amplifier - $2500 and up).
I also would think that even the flagship AVR's still share the same (non separate) limitations that mid price AVR's are subject to, notwithstanding the abundance of power and umpteen channels, and even if they don't the flagship prices are off the charts. I'm not knocking the flagships, but I just don't have a theater room to take advantage of all the features and horsepower that they offer. No way I can justify paying that much.
Looks like Emotiva tried to address this price gap with their Bas-X offerings, but I've read a lot about them, and I'm thinking it'll be a Denon, depending on what the new Anthems present.
If anybody knows of a 7 channel Pre Pro and 5 channel amp setup in the $1500 price neighborhood, I'd like to hear about it.
Thanks again!

 

[ZolaIII]

Thanks to you members for giving me you insights. You've confirmed what I've found.
There seems to be a pretty big price gap between very good AVR's $1000 to $1500 (Denon 3000's and 4000's/Anthem etc.) and separates (AV pre pro and 5 or 7 channel amplifier - $2500 and up).
I also would think that even the flagship AVR's still share the same (non separate) limitations that mid price AVR's are subject to, notwithstanding the abundance of power and umpteen channels, and even if they don't the flagship prices are off the charts. I'm not knocking the flagships, but I just don't have a theater room to take advantage of all the features and horsepower that they offer. No way I can justify paying that much.
Looks like Emotiva tried to address this price gap with their Bas-X offerings, but I've read a lot about them, and I'm thinking it'll be a Denon, depending on what the new Anthems present.
If anybody knows of a 7 channel Pre Pro and 5 channel amp setup in the $1500 price neighborhood, I'd like to hear about it.
Thanks again!

How about 6 channel amplifier and 5.1 PC card for about 1500$? Beats every AVR.

 

[Fahzz]

I went to Allo Digione (runs off a Pi 3B) to get the PC out of the equation. Also simplicity is important around here, if you catch my drift.

 

[ZolaIII]

I went to Allo Digione (runs off a Pi 3B) to get the PC out of the equation. Also simplicity is important around here, if you catch my drift.

Yes usually people here don't mean content creation when they mention processing or procesor & PC always complicate things. However I still use damn rainy bucket. Thing is finding even relatively good multichannel DAC implementation is getting a bit hard recently(in any form). Anyway amp is Buckley 6 channel built. Best regards.

 

[Pdxwayne]

I am in the market for a new AVR/Processor too....

My old Onkyo won't reliably turn on sound any more (display works but no sound from speakers jacks or preout).
My Marantz AV8801 is a bit muddy (Marantz sound?) and I prefer cleaner sound that I get from DAC direct to amps.

I want something that would do movies just fine, but still work great for stereo.

Since I have many Paradigm speakers, maybe I can consider Anthem?