Audioholics endorses another speaker cable

[Trdat]

I just don't get his 360 degree turn towards acoustic treatments. I understand that he was fighting against the whole "absorb all early reflectons concept" but he pushed hard to advocate some fresh ideas on the acoustic realm of treatment for the typical listening room and his u-turn is without an explanation. Is it all above board? Probably to some extent, but advertising money takes precedent.

In defence for Mathew Pose who was the expert on his first acoustic presentation on Audioholics was still in line with the concepts Gene layed out early on in his vidoes. Yes, with some discrepencies but Mathew layed it all down with science. Now, Gene's new videos(Poes and Grimmani) on acoustics are an all out u-turn on what he was previously advocating.

Now, I am not saying Grimmani is pseudo, he knows his stuff and its not much different to Mathew Poes's frame of thought but Mathew gave an explanation on why and how you can opt for certain treatment with each previous concept mentioned from Gene somehow covered or touched upon by Mathew. While Grimmani's presentation goes against the flow of these concepts(I am not saying the concepts are wrong in any way) perpetuated by Gene in his previous videos. By all means they could be all called for and people advance and change mindsets, but its straight up acoustic treatment now even for the typical listening room.

 

[Katji]

LOL Unfortunate typo of his name. I was going to ask "is that really his name" then I saw it was a typo. ... Sorry OT /LOL

[edit:] OMG it is actually his name, I googled it. LOL, Some countries he should avoid visiting. The problems will start when he checks in at the hotel.

 

[krabapple]

I just don't get his 360 degree turn towards acoustic treatments. I understand that he was fighting against the whole "absorb all early reflectons concept" but he pushed hard to advocate some fresh ideas on the acoustic realm of treatment for the typical listening room and his u-turn is without an explanation. Is it all above board? Probably to some extent, but advertising money takes precedent.

In defence for Mathew Pose who was the expert on his first acoustic presentation on Audioholics was still in line with the concepts Gene layed out early on in his vidoes. Yes, with some discrepencies but Mathew layed it all down with science. Now, Gene's new videos(Poes and Grimmani) on acoustics are an all out u-turn on what he was previously advocating.

Now, I am not saying Grimmani is pseudo, he knows his stuff and its not much different to Mathew Poes's frame of thought but Mathew gave an explanation on why and how you can opt for certain treatment with each previous concept mentioned from Gene somehow covered or touched upon by Mathew. While Grimmani's presentation goes against the flow of these concepts(I am not saying the concepts are wrong in any way) perpetuated by Gene in his previous videos. By all means they could be all called for and people advance and change mindsets, but its straight up acoustic treatment now even for the typical listening room.

Without some more context is hard to know what you are talking about.

A 360 turn bring you around to where you began

 

[Trdat]

Without some more context is hard to know what you are talking about.

A 360 turn bring you around to where you began

Yeh I meant 180 sorry.

Well, I tried to keep the post short and I can't knit pick each concept and idea he was expressing and explain it through the era of his youtube channel and how his mindset has changed over the years. If you don't know about it, its a bit hard to explain but overall it is what I said, Gene was taking pot shots at acoustic treatment and now his advertising it at the cost of what he was previously advocating. Like his forgotten what he was trying to get at in his previously posted videos. Although his articles are extensive even with one written by Floyde Toole but again the ideas expressed where all in line.

 

[escksu]

Without any testing. From reading the 'article' I guess I should change to litz wire because it helps "maintain a more linear AC resistance profile well beyond the audio band (> 20kHz)" Isn't that the same as someone saying that "class A amps are better because blah, blah, blah. And I'll test that later"



audioholic's past comments have always been about the claims the companies make, not just the construction of price of the cables. He quotes shielded cables in his article "Our company strives to provide innovative, custom, and affordable audio solutions to enhance the playing and listening experience through high quality, shielded cables. " It is a round about way of saying your system will sound better; sure the look of the cables could be seen to enhance the listening experience but I think most will take that as a claim of improved sound.
"We are happy to report the Shielded Audio website is snake oil free." Yes, they dance very carefully around making crazy claims but over and over they imply that the cables will sound better than cheaper options. From their power cord: "a premium low constant dielectric provides unmatched performance for your system." They obviously don't say we will hear better depth or clarity and while 'unmatched performance' can simply mean it will get the electricity to your amp better than any other cord; to most people it will be taken as better sound.

Actually, it would be the same as going after Amir for recommending a much more expensive DAC based only on the claims of the manufacture. Gene is endorsing these cables "First Impression: Gotta Have It!" prior to any testing.

Do you know whats litz cable?? How it works and why its able to reduce skin effect? This is a well known property of litz wire.

 

[MarkS]

Skin effect is irrelevant at audio frequencies.

 

[ta240]

Do you know whats litz cable?? How it works and why its able to reduce skin effect? This is a well known property of litz wire.

This is a classic case of an actual fact being used to make something that isn't true sound good. It is a common sales technique to start with something real and then extrapolate the unreal from it.

While skin effect is a real thing, the depth of the 'skin' changes based on the frequency and at audio frequencies it is quite deep; often the full depth of the wire. It makes a great argument to be able to use a term like 'skin effect' but it just doesn't apply in the case of frequencies in the 20KHz and below range. If it did, they would be able to pass a 20KHz signal through their wire and a 'regular' wire and show the difference in the output.

The 'skin depth' at 20KHz is nearly half a mm (source) a solid 12 gauge wire is about 2 mm diameter (source). So even with a single solid wire you would be using nearly 1/2 the wire for just the 20KHz frequencies.

At 5KHz the skin depth is nearly 1 mm so that solid 12 gauge wire, which is about 2 mm diameter would be using all of the wire for transmitting that signal.

I guess if someone wants their audio cables to transmit megahertz signals then litz cable is just the thing.

Also, my criticism of Audioholics was for them being a site, that is big on testing, saying "Gotta Have It" without testing the wire. Capacitance, inductance, and resistance can have a measurable affect on the audio output and they were endorsing a wire without testing those. Chasing a non-problem like skin effect at audio frequencies at the possible detriment to qualities that can affect sound at those frequencies is just wrong. The wire may be great but if you are going to be all about proof, then don't endorse it until you have tested it. Being excited about a companies product simply because they don't make outlandish claims seems silly; especially when their products are designed in a such a way to make the buyer think they will do outlandish things.
If you say your car wax has teflon in it but don't say it will make bird poop slide right off your car is it really better than the place that does claim that; since people know teflon is supposed to be super slick (even though it does nothing in a car wax)?

 

[krabapple]

Yeh I meant 180 sorry.
.
.

Gene was taking pot shots at acoustic treatment and now his advertising it at the cost of what he was previously advocating.

That's the context that was missing.

 

[egellings]

Litz wire (individually insulated strands in a multi-strand wire) is not necessary for analog audio. Any improvement it might bring would be too microscopic to hear.

 

[Pennyless Audiophile]

https://www.audioholics.com/gadget-reviews/shielded-audio

The advantage of Litz is that each individual conductor is insulated to help reduce skin effect and thus maintain a more linear AC resistance profile well beyond the audio band (> 20kHz). This is something I will be measuring in the near future.
—Gene DellaSala, President - Audioholics

Well, all objectivists are, in a dark corner of their soul, keen subjectivists !!

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Well, all objectivists are, in a dark corner of their soul, keen subjectivists !!

I'd say that all objectivist yearn, in the dark corners of their soul, to be able to trust their subjective experience.

 

[egellings]

Just believe Bee-leeeve! All things are possible!

 

[Katji]

I'd say that all objectivist yearn, in the dark corners of their soul, to be able to trust their subjective experience.

I'm quite sure, objectively and subjectively, that my faculties will continue to deteriorate, but I trust that hearing aid technology will continue to improve, and maybe with some neurological enhancement, and what remains of my mental faculty will include the part of appreciating the music. ...If not, well, someone mentioned today that we can create sounds in the mind - so be it. /

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I'm quite sure, objectively and subjectively, that my faculties will continue to deteriorate, but I trust that hearing aid technology will continue to improve, and maybe with some neurological enhancement, and what remains of my mental faculty will include the part of appreciating the music. ...If not, well, someone mentioned today that we can create sounds in the mind - so be it. /

I agree but it seems we were talking about sound, per se, and not music.

 

[David Harper]

Just eliminate the wire and build the amps into the speakers. Problem solved. Or is it that high end speaker wires improve the sound?
That must be it. Wires that cost thousands improve the sound compared to no wire at all.

 

[egellings]

With the amps in the speakers, small lengths of connecting wire are still needed. Tweekos will demand that those be ridiculously expensive, too

 

[Mountain Goat]

Skin effect is irrelevant at audio frequencies.

The fact that Gene himself has said that many times in various cable debunking videos is what has shocked people about this.

 

[3dbinCanada]

He isn't actually, in fact he didn't write this article at all in the first place... This is a preview (not review) of a product, published by "Tony", with only quotes from Gene in it...

Nonetheless, I agree that the overall article could be somewhat misleading.

It seems to me that they quoted the Litz glossy. Thats how I see it.

 

[Mountain Goat]

Makes the most sense.

 

[David Harper]

I'd say that all objectivist yearn, in the dark corners of their soul, to be able to trust their subjective experience.

could be that trusting one's own subjective experience is the greatest mistake that human beings ever made.
Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold trusted their own experience.