ATC speakers / Monitors

[Eckerslad]

This guy compared KH310 and 8351 and SCM25 and chose the ATCs

View attachment 346073

It’s interesting how the speakers are laid out in that demonstration room: All the main players are clustered around the ATCs.

Also a bit of expectation bias in the video - he sort-of wanted the ATCs before he went in…

 

[YSC]

It’s interesting how the speakers are laid out in that demonstration room: All the main players are clustered around the ATCs.

Also a bit of expectation bias in the video - he sort-of wanted the ATCs before he went in…

yea, especially when in room response vs psychoacoustics, it's not easy to make one change his mind from the one he originally waned, unless it really sucks

 

[dfuller]

yea, especially when in room response vs psychoacoustics, it's not easy to make one change his mind from the one he originally waned, unless it really sucks

Honestly I think this is why I had such a visceral reaction to the 8361s - I expected them to be world beaters and they just... weren't?

 

[YSC]

Honestly I think this is why I had such a visceral reaction to the 8361s - I expected them to be world beaters and they just... weren't?

It could well be it, when you’re hoping for night and day difference and wow you, it’s very easy to be disappointed and turn to great disappointment.

TBH the only night and day difference I’ve experienced are from stock computer speaker to proper monitors, the rest hits diminishing return quickly as our ears aren’t that sensitive in real life, especially concerning accurate sound

 

[Pearljam5000]

Honestly I think this is why I had such a visceral reaction to the 8361s - I expected them to be world beaters and they just... weren't?

I don't think it's mostly about expectations but it's more about the sound you like/dislike .
I read a million reviews about the KH120 before I bought them without hearing them , like I said they were too dark to me compared to the Genelecs .
Then I sold them and went to audition the 8361
The reviews never tell the whole story , so I didn't know what to expect
Within 30 seconds I knew I like the sound.
The brain either likes the sound or it doesn't.
If it takes me a lot of time to adjust to the sound I usually end up not liking it.

 

[Berlin]

I read a million reviews about the KH120 before I bought them without hearing them , like I said they were too dark to me compared to the Genelecs .

This is interesting. My Neumann KH150 sound “brighter” than my Genelec 8330…

 

[Pearljam5000]

This is interesting. My Neumann KH150 sound “brighter” than my Genelec 8330…

Maybe the KH120II and the KH150 sound differently than the old KH120

 

[Liya]

This is interesting. My Neumann KH150 sound “brighter” than my Genelec 8330…

I have 8030C and when the KH150 arrived I briefly thought the same. But then my feeling was that the 8030s could be a little brighter. Anyway, I have dialled down the KH150 top end by 1db. Needless to say, the KH150 are superior speakers and the best I have ever had (I am ex ATC owner).

 

[YSC]

I have 8030C and when the KH150 arrived I briefly thought the same. But then my feeling was that the 8030s could be a little brighter. Anyway, I have dialled down the KH150 top end by 1db. Needless to say, the KH150 are superior speakers and the best I have ever had (I am ex ATC owner).

Considering the cost, it should be.

 

[Arnas]

Honestly I think this is why I had such a visceral reaction to the 8361s - I expected them to be world beaters and they just... weren't?

Dont expect such speakers to turn shit into wax like some people say...
Try it on best possible recordings and not just library that you listen.

 

[dfuller]

Dont expect such speakers to turn shit into wax like some people say...
Try it on best possible recordings and not just library that you listen.

I mean, it was on tracks I knew very well. I have a list of tunes I use to test.

 

[Pearljam5000]

I mean, it was on tracks I knew very well. I have a list of tunes I use to test.

What did you hate about them ?

 

[YSC]

I mean, it was on tracks I knew very well. I have a list of tunes I use to test.

IMO this is the blind spot, when you got adapted to a set of tunes you get listened to often so you "know it well" in the old system, and all in a sudden you change to another speaker, be it better or worse, one would likely think "something is off", or even when one go from a good system to a better one, since most reproduction systems out there are just completely BS, the difference between good to better will be much less than one would expect from the data. it will be even more pronounced if you test the 8361 without GLM calibration comparing to the old speakers.

 

[goat76]

IMO this is the blind spot, when you got adapted to a set of tunes you get listened to often so you "know it well" in the old system, and all in a sudden you change to another speaker, be it better or worse, one would likely think "something is off", or even when one go from a good system to a better one, since most reproduction systems out there are just completely BS, the difference between good to better will be much less than one would expect from the data. it will be even more pronounced if you test the 8361 without GLM calibration comparing to the old speakers.

He never said it was a set of tunes he JUST knows well on his old system. I assume he means it's a bunch of tracks he usually uses for tests which he has heard in many different sound systems over the years, and therefore has a pretty good idea of how those tracks should and can sound when they sound right to him.

I have favorite tracks that have followed me around for 20-30 years, tracks that I like the sound quality of and have heard on so many different sound systems over the years that I with good comfort can say how those tracks should sound. With those tracks, it is very easy to hear if something sounds off in one way or another, and if a certain pair of loudspeakers represent those tracks in a way that doesn't work for me and my subjective taste in sound, I know those speakers will not work for me.
The same usually goes with most tracks that are considered generally well-balanced sounding as reference tracks, even the ones I usually don't listen to as often as my good-sounding favorite tracks.

We are individuals you know, what works for you doesn't have to work for others. Ask average Joe what he thinks but build your system to your taste, I think that will make you way more satisfied with the sound of your sound system.

 

[dfuller]

What did you hate about them ?

I didn't like the way the mids sounded, mostly - they felt kind of "blurry". Things that I knew would be defined a certain way on speakers that make sense to my ears were just not right.

The low end also felt boomy but that may well have been the room.

The ATCs I was considering (the SCM50s) won in the mids by a lot, by comparison. However I'm not made of money so I ended up with KH420s, which were $7000 a pair cheaper and don't need subs to be full range. The SCM50s are great but they lack deep low end - ATC themselves spec F6 at 38Hz where F6 of the KH420s is 25hz, so the better part of an octave lower.

 

[YSC]

I didn't like the way the mids sounded, mostly - they felt kind of "blurry". Things that I knew would be defined a certain way on speakers that make sense to my ears were just not right.

The low end also felt boomy but that may well have been the room.

The ATCs I was considering (the SCM50s) won in the mids by a lot, by comparison. However I'm not made of money so I ended up with KH420s, which were $7000 a pair cheaper and don't need subs to be full range. The SCM50s are great but they lack deep low end - ATC themselves spec F6 at 38Hz where F6 of the KH420s is 25hz, so the better part of an octave lower.

that was quite a surprised twist, but I am wondering did you audition all in the same room, and if the 8361 and KH420 used the intended room correction to tune them to a specific target? coz muddiness sometimes is just where exactly the drivers or the speakers in related to stuffs around creating various room modes masking the range, and all those 3 sized rather differently so likely it could create some kind of illutions.

 

[dfuller]

that was quite a surprised twist, but I am wondering did you audition all in the same room, and if the 8361 and KH420 used the intended room correction to tune them to a specific target? coz muddiness sometimes is just where exactly the drivers or the speakers in related to stuffs around creating various room modes masking the range, and all those 3 sized rather differently so likely it could create some kind of illutions.

The GLM profile Vintage King had running was trash - they sounded better with it off. The KH420s were the only ones I couldn't audition in the same room.

If I had to rate the speakers I demoed by tiers, it would look like this:

S tier: DD8C, KH420, SCM50
A tier: Kii, Mesanovic CDM65
B tier: PMC 6-2, PSI A25M
C tier: 8361, Ex Machina Quasar Mk2
D tier: MM27 Gen2

 

[YSC]

The GLM profile Vintage King had running was trash - they sounded better with it off. The KH420s were the only ones I couldn't audition in the same room.

If I had to rate the speakers I demoed by tiers, it would look like this:

S tier: DD8C, KH420, SCM50
A tier: Kii, Mesanovic CDM65
B tier: PMC 6-2, PSI A25M
C tier: 8361, Ex Machina Quasar Mk2
D tier: MM27 Gen2

hum~ if that's the case I personally won't compare them by ear, dealer showroom demo are always easy for them to tinker with room setting, any source profile etc. not sure about vintage king but in asia quite some dealer demo rooms have pre apply certain curve to the source to make the MLP in their demo room sound best with the speaker they wanted to sell most. they likely just used the default in room flat curve from GLM though, so not sure what they did.

I say so coz from the list you showed, all objectively falls at least into the good to very good speakers category if ignoring the price factor. in such case the room affects the sound one way or the other easily outweight what it could actually perform. have seen way too much cases where if one do a quick REW sweep one could see in the room mode region there are huge differences in FR even if they appear to be placed in the same spot.

 

[dfuller]

hum~ if that's the case I personally won't compare them by ear, dealer showroom demo are always easy for them to tinker with room setting, any source profile etc. not sure about vintage king but in asia quite some dealer demo rooms have pre apply certain curve to the source to make the MLP in their demo room sound best with the speaker they wanted to sell most. they likely just used the default in room flat curve from GLM though, so not sure what they did.

I say so coz from the list you showed, all objectively falls at least into the good to very good speakers category if ignoring the price factor. in such case the room affects the sound one way or the other easily outweight what it could actually perform. have seen way too much cases where if one do a quick REW sweep one could see in the room mode region there are huge differences in FR even if they appear to be placed in the same spot.

VK is a pro dealer - they know better than to do that. And yeah, the only set that was actively bad was the Barefoots.

 

[Pasim]

VK is a pro dealer - they know better than to do that. And yeah, the only set that was actively bad was the Barefoots.

What made the barefoots bad? i've never heard them but have heard that theyre not good and others then praising them.