ATC, Dutch&Dutch, Grimm tomorrow

[PierreV]

Anyone hearing or claiming to hear differences with ethernet switches or ethernet cables on functional hardware is either delusional or dishonest.
That's all there is to it.

 

[Deleted member 29551]

it is not a matter of trust or distrust.
It is simply a matter of a sighted "test" says much about the perception of the listener and very little about the device under test.
Something we know for more than a century, be it N-rays or Kluge Hans.
No reason to mistrust your perception and no reason either to trust on it as a objective reference.
That is inherent to sighted "testing".

I would tend to say that alpha is more subjective then objective.
The streams are fun to watch.
But the website is a bit like the more expensive the better.here at ASR it's not through torough measurements.
So i think Alpha Audio is missing alot of potentiele audience by being subjective.
I visit your site once twice a month and it strikes me that you really focus on expensive gear without measurements. it seems like advertorial.

Thanks for the feedback. We will look at how we can improve.

Buying more measuring gear is not an option. We just don't have enough income to buy an AP or Prism device. Unfortunately. Already checked them out.

 

[Deleted member 29551]

Anyone hearing or claiming to hear differences with ethernet switches or ethernet cables on functional hardware is either delusional or dishonest.
That's all there is to it.

Damn. That is a big statement... I wouldn't dare putting it like that. You do know people were convinced the earth was flat and the center of the universe...?

 

[diddley]

But having Tim Knol is absolutly wonderfull!

 

[diddley]

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...el-bonn-n8-audio-grade-ethernet-switch.12360/

 

[sailor2005]

Damn. That is a big statement... I wouldn't dare putting it like that. You do know people were convinced the earth was flat and the center of the universe...?

You do know that there are people who STILL believe the Earth is flat even in the face of science and physical reality...?

 

[Deleted member 29551]

You do know that there are people who STILL believe the Earth is flat even in the face of science and physical reality...?

Yep...

 

[Kuppenbender]

Damn. That is a big statement... I wouldn't dare putting it like that. You do know people were convinced the earth was flat and the center of the universe...?

The issue here is who has the burden of proof. In the case of ‘audiophile’ ethernet switches, surely that falls on the manufacturer of such devices. Until such a device can be demonstrated to have a purely audible effect (ie. unsighted testing), there really is no reason to believe otherwise.

 

[sailor2005]

Yep...

And those who claim to hear differences from ethernet switches are like today's flat-earthers... unless, of course, they are hearing a fan inside the switch

 

[Deleted member 29551]

The issue here is who has the burden of proof. In the case of ‘audiophile’ ethernet switches, surely that falls on the manufacturer of such devices. Until such a device can be demonstrated to have a purely audible effect (ie. unsighted testing), there really is no reason to believe otherwise.

True. That's why we are trying to find out what could make a difference - there is no difference in data, that's for sure - and check some measurements.

 

[Soniclife]

True. That's why we are trying to find out what could make a difference - there is no difference in data, that's for sure - and check some measurements.

You start by proving it did make a difference, with a controlled ears only test. Only if you get a positive result from that is why a relevant question. Doing it the other way around implies you have made your mind up, and don't want to be confused by the facts.

 

[Deleted member 29551]

You start by proving it did make a difference, with a controlled ears only test. Only if you get a positive result from that is why a relevant question. Doing it the other way around implies you have made your mind up, and don't want to be confused by the facts.

We did do a blind test with our readers back in nov 2019. The results showed the differences heard we're very constant per switch.

 

[Frank Dernie]

True. That's why we are trying to find out what could make a difference - there is no difference in data, that's for sure - and check some measurements.

The only technically plausible thing which could make a difference if the data is not altered (which of course it is not) is the placebo effect, which is very strong.

 

[Soniclife]

We did do a blind test with our readers back in nov 2019. The results showed the differences heard we're very constant per switch.

It wasn't double blind, so it was meaningless. Again this just implies you were trolling for data to support your desired position.

 

[TheBatsEar]

"ATC invented the mid dome."

Oh boy ;-)

 

[Duke]

@Alpha Audio, I've only watched two of your online comparison videos, this one and the one which preceded it a few months ago. I learned things from both videos which were very educational to me, in part because I was able to listen to extremely competent design implementations of very different loudspeaker philosophies, well mic'd. In fact I have gone back to the first one several times, and will probably do the same with this one.

I have a couple of questions. Have you listened to the recordings you made of these speakers yourself over earbuds or headphones? If so, how representative do you find the recordings to be of the tonality and spatial quality of the speakers? My guess is that it's easier to capture the tonality than to capture the spatial quality.

 

[Vincent Kars]

We did do a blind test with our readers back in nov 2019.

Veenstra is referring to this one: https://alpha-audio.net/review/zeven-switches-for-streaming-audio-tested-blind/2/
I do like the attempt to quantify the "test".
Even the individual scores are included!
Excellent job.

Unfortunately the difference are not tested for statistical significance.
Not even a simple Chi-square.
Others more in the know might chime in if this is the right test as the number of participants in very low.
Maybe Kendall's Tau is a better one.
Methodological problems apart, if you can't prove the difference are statistical significant, you haven't proved anything at all.
That is inherent to analyzing user preferences.

 

[Deleted member 29551]

@Alpha Audio, I've only watched two of your online comparison videos, this one and the one which preceded it a few months ago. I learned things from both videos which were very educational to me, in part because I was able to listen to extremely competent design implementations of very different loudspeaker philosophies, well mic'd. In fact I have gone back to the first one several times, and will probably do the same with this one.

I have a couple of questions. Have you listened to the recordings you made of these speakers yourself over earbuds or headphones? If so, how representative to you find the recordings to be of the tonality and spatial quality of the speakers? My guess is that it's easier to capture the tonality than to capture the spatial quality.

Hi Duke,

Very good question. Yes, I've listened to it more than a couple of times. I always check the 'real life' experience to what we record. Tonality we can capture pretty well. The DPA's we used in the last test are definately better than the Rode TF5 with Telefunken omni for bass.

Stereo-imaging is okay. Again: with the DPA we made a jump in capturing the 'air'. But getting that image on some headphones is hard. Because I know how it sounds, I can kind of 'feel' it when listeing on headphones. I do hear differences in airyness. But it's not good enough yet, I think. Funny enough, the precision in imaging is transferred...

 

[Deleted member 29551]

Veenstra is referring to this one: https://alpha-audio.net/review/zeven-switches-for-streaming-audio-tested-blind/2/
I do like the attempt to quantify the "test".
Even the individual scores are included!
Excellent job.

Unfortunately the difference are not tested for statistical significance.
Not even a simple Chi-square.
Others more in the know might chime in if this is the right test as the number of participants in very low.
Maybe Kendall's Tau is a better one.
Methodological problems apart, if you can't prove the difference are statistical significant, you haven't proved anything at all.
That is inherent to analyzing user preferences.

I am not a mathematician. I'm just a qualified journalist with an excessive interest in online publishing and audio... I write stories about what I think people will like. And I try to give them some extra insights. Again: I include readers, musicians and engineers in my tests and stories. That way I shine a light on both sides of the story and try to make it more objective. Any review will have subjective information. And I - we - will alway make mistakes; that's how I / we learn.

Check my first livestream and the last one... The first one sucked bigtime. The last one is a lot better, but still had mistakes... so what? We are all people. We learn by making mistakes.

 

[muslhead]

I am not a mathematician. I'm just a qualified journalist with an excessive interest in online publishing and audio... I write stories about what I think people will like. And I try to give them some extra insights. Again: I include readers, musicians and engineers in my tests and stories. That way I shine a light on both sides of the story and try to make it more objective. Any review will have subjective information. And I - we - will alway make mistakes; that's how I / we learn.

Check my first livestream and the last one... The first one sucked bigtime. The last one is a lot better, but still had mistakes... so what? We are all people. We learn by making mistakes.

Not disparaging you or your attempt at journalism but its this attitude i read in your responses that makes journalist the 4th least respected professions (in US and #1 in the UK). Aren't any journalists motivated by accuracy and professionalism or is it just to drive advertising (the 3rd least respected)? Seems like integrity and doing the right thing in this profession has been thrown out the window and become nothing more than an after thought. Should you consider raising the bar in your future videos in the quest to differentiate yourself from the rest of "fake" news?