Some bass down to maybe 40Hz, sure. But rather sharply cut below there, except in special circumstances. And not everybody hangs around clubs with loud systems.
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ASR MEMBERS: What System Would YOU Choose To Blow Away Non-Audiophiles?
- Thread starter MattHooper
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I posted something about this a few days ago. Atkinson is profoundly wrong.
I find this typical High End Audio talk... the audiophile equivalent of body shaming.. I call it "ear-shaming"
.. If you don't hear the vast differences it is because you have "tin ears" while the golden-eared audiophiles would hear these as "night and day" differences.. Of course, with full knowledge of the equipment under test... Remove that knowledge and see how the super-hero-level hearing abilities, disappear ...Happy holidays.
Peace.
computer-audiophile
Major Contributor
Concerning Tanizaki Junichiro on Japanese Aesthetics - In Praise of Shadows (Sorry for the short off topic break)
Seems to me there is a concept on this thread that civilians have never heard decent sound quality
Many experience adequate to good sound in their cars every day.
Had a ride in a BMW just the other day, company car so stock sound system. Really pleasant, clean sound.
Okay you can do better outside the environment of a car but most in car systems these days reach an acceptable level of quality. It's not those cheap, in dash cassette decks that eat the tape anymore, with a set of three quid 'full range' drivers mounted in the door cards just above floor level,
Also a lot of civilians have soundbars which are also pretty good these days.
Many experience adequate to good sound in their cars every day.
Had a ride in a BMW just the other day, company car so stock sound system. Really pleasant, clean sound.
Okay you can do better outside the environment of a car but most in car systems these days reach an acceptable level of quality. It's not those cheap, in dash cassette decks that eat the tape anymore, with a set of three quid 'full range' drivers mounted in the door cards just above floor level,
Also a lot of civilians have soundbars which are also pretty good these days.
Svet Angelov
Active Member
Going from TV speakers to Sonos is great. Going from Sonos to the next thing, well..
I would choose a setup that costs around 1k in total, just to show what is possible without breaking the bank. Definitely with speakers that go down to 30-40hz in-room or a sub.
I think that hits the nail on the head.
People do know what powerful, dynamic, bass extended, music sounds like. They hear it all the time at live concerts and in movie theaters.
They don't often hear it at someone's home. So it makes for a really fun experience when they do.
Heck, all I've been trying to do is obtain what I call hi-fi PA.....putting together the best of both worlds.
The hi-fi part has complete priority, but with the added goal to be as powerful and dynamic as possible throughout the spectrum.
Nothing all that great on my part, other than sticking with a passion for the type audio I find most moving....
Robin L
Master Contributor
I guess what I'm looking for in musical playback gear is different than what most other people are looking for. I'm sure whatever system I'd come up with would not blow away whoever is listening. I usually listen at lower volume levels, and while my system has a subwoofer that goes down to at least 30hz, one would not be overwhelmed by the bass when listening to music over the system. I'm mostly listening to classical music these days. If one is listening to classical or acoustic concert music in a typical seat in a typical venue, the volume is not so great as to blow one away. Right now, I'm listening to a fine performance of Bach's Goldberg Variations on harpsichord (Brilliant 99362/10-11, Pieter-Jan Belder) and the volume level is about what one would hear relatively close to the instrument in a typical venue. Everything is clearly audible and sounding quite lovely, but I'm sure no one would be blown away by the sound qua sound, even though the sound is a fairly good simulacrum of harpsichord sound. My playback gear would have trouble reproducing Mahler's Second symphony at the volume level one would encounter in the front row seats of an appropriate venue, but not so much trouble if one was listening mid-hall. There was a time when I'd read all the audio rags and go to audio stores listening to "high-end" gear. But, as much as I love and listen to recorded music, I find it never really matches unamplified acoustic music performed in an acoustically appropriate venue. And heavily amplified music usually has me reaching for earplugs.
Interesting question....on thread title alone I wondered why would a non-audiophile be impressed by audio gear, or even a demo of such? I cracked up when reading comments how an audiophile sits still and listens with their eyes closed.....sure, sometimes, but all the time? I have had roommates for a good part of my adult life, only one was what I'd call an audiophile and we could have fun with the gear and demos and such, but I can't think of any others that were particularly interested (but loved it when we had parties). Most of my friends are the same way, just not impressed by the gear or a demo. Many really enjoy music, some are even musicians, but are much more impressed by live performances, or specific artists or pieces of music than general reproduction....and many seem to be able to enjoy it no matter the gear, and as was mentioned no particular interest in having similar gear in their homes. I have impressed a couple of my younger friends with what subs can do, and think they were mostly impressed that you could do that in a house rather than a car....
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I think expectations come into play a bit here. If you park your buddy in front of massive speakers and many large boxes, they’ll be on alert, ready for nirvana. I parked by buddy in front of my tiny Genelec 8030C and Rel sub, all passed through Dirac. Without coaxing, he starts laughing and pointing at sounds. Still, laughing, he says “It’s coming out of the wall behind the speakers”. Then he starts telling me what to play. Fun evening.
OP
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- #113
It's interesting to see how people have taken the question in the OP in some different directions, addressing various issues like whether our personal demos have impressed guests, or even if one should care about impressing non-audiophiles in the first place.
On that issue, I understand the audiophiles who say "I don't care about impressing anyone else with my system, it's only there to please me." I think we all have that goal at bottom, but I think this also speaks to our different personality types as well. I can see how a more solitary-inclined individual would just not care much about playing the system for others. I myself am not a solitary-type. For me a shared experience trumps a solitary experience just about every time. And so one aspect of high end audio that can be disappointing is the sometimes solitary nature of it, the "one person in the sweet spot" and the fact so few people are in to it. I never try to evangelize about high end audio, but I am very much about SHARING the experience when possible and welcomed by a guest.
This is why such a large cross section of my friends, family, work buddies, acquaintances etc have ended up listening to my various systems over the years. And it includes a number of people I barely know. For instance we've had lots of contractors and installers through the house. It's pretty common for some of them to spot all the high end gear (the speakers are especially prominent) and start asking some questions "what's the deal with this stuff?" Or it might be someone who actually already has a bit of interest or knowledge themselves. So if often comes down to "you can have a listen if you want" and many take up the offer. So I've seen a lot of "civilian" reactions to high end audio.
The usual reaction is that after listening the "get it," why someone would be in to this, even if they are not going to start buying gear themselves. (My wife is the closest to an immovable object in this regard. One of the few times she sat and listened to one of her favourite songs on one of my systems, years ago, left her in tears. But even given that, her interest in my system is well in to the negative integers).
On that issue, I understand the audiophiles who say "I don't care about impressing anyone else with my system, it's only there to please me." I think we all have that goal at bottom, but I think this also speaks to our different personality types as well. I can see how a more solitary-inclined individual would just not care much about playing the system for others. I myself am not a solitary-type. For me a shared experience trumps a solitary experience just about every time. And so one aspect of high end audio that can be disappointing is the sometimes solitary nature of it, the "one person in the sweet spot" and the fact so few people are in to it. I never try to evangelize about high end audio, but I am very much about SHARING the experience when possible and welcomed by a guest.
This is why such a large cross section of my friends, family, work buddies, acquaintances etc have ended up listening to my various systems over the years. And it includes a number of people I barely know. For instance we've had lots of contractors and installers through the house. It's pretty common for some of them to spot all the high end gear (the speakers are especially prominent) and start asking some questions "what's the deal with this stuff?" Or it might be someone who actually already has a bit of interest or knowledge themselves. So if often comes down to "you can have a listen if you want" and many take up the offer. So I've seen a lot of "civilian" reactions to high end audio.
The usual reaction is that after listening the "get it," why someone would be in to this, even if they are not going to start buying gear themselves. (My wife is the closest to an immovable object in this regard. One of the few times she sat and listened to one of her favourite songs on one of my systems, years ago, left her in tears. But even given that, her interest in my system is well in to the negative integers).
I'm more that solitary guy, and retired and single and no kids and like living alone (now). Not that many people to show anything to where I live either (small town surrounded by national forest for quite a few miles) other than the ones who've already been by before.
I could put together a proposal but more than the choice of equipment is that it all should be invisible/concealed. Novices are probably more likely to be influenced by appearances even more than are audiophiles.
Same here. It was a revelation to me when I finally realized that they couldn't care less how my setup sounded.
One of the things that made me realize it was when most friends and relatives noticed and were somewhat disappointed that I had parted with my vacuum tubes integrated amplifier, for "it looked very cool".
Got a subwoofer and people commented on how interesting it felt when they could feel the bass. After equalizing for room modes, I had the usual complaints that it did not rock/vibrate as much as before. No one noticed that the bass notes were tighter and did not linger. Crank it up!
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OP
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Interesting point!
Though that would take away one of the "neato" discoveries many non-audiophiles have - seeing the loudspeakers, but experiencing the sound as fully detached from the speakers, and imaging all around them and between them. If the speakers were hidden they may just assume more than two speakers, and not really get that realization.
OP
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I can empathize with your friends
One of my audio pals moved from tube amps to solid state, and ever since, sitting in front of his system has lost a bit of the "cool" factor - big faceless metal boxes instead of the neato glowing tubes that sort of "set the mood."
Always just a tad disappointing...
This. I doubt most people care enough to be impressed. Loud? They can get that at the movie theater, and they know it just takes money. Big? Antithetical to the modern ethic and aesthetic. Stacks of vintage gear versus stacks of modern gear? Most non-enthusiasts couldn't tell the difference. And forget any performance measure that would be important to most folks here.
I suspect what would impress people the most these days is sitting down in a space and hearing realistically loud acoustic music around them with absolutely no visible equipment whatsoever. Blank walls (as the current aesthetic seems to dictate), white on white on white on gray on white, a black hardwood floor with a white rug on it, two pieces of Japanese furniture (one with a vase that holds a single lotus flower), and an IKEA bookshelf along one wall, holding only pictures of the residents hanging off the sides of canyons looking buff. Maybe a furniture-grade piano in the corner, with the lid up. A Belgian sofa with power recline. An 80" video panel that drops from a hidden slot in the ceiling. But no speakers, no LED's, no buttons, no wires and sure as hell no VW-sized subwoofers. Music selected by Alexa on voice command.
That would be impressive to non-audio-enthusiasts.
Rick "or, stated another way, who cares what would impress non-geeks?" Denney
