Are you sure?

[danielbaen]

good morning
First of all I apologize for my low participation in this forum and the time that I would like to dedicate to find out if what I am going to write is possible that another member has already written it, I apologize again
I have to say that for me this website is a kind of salvation, messiah or real guru as far as Audiophilia is concerned and a prodigious discovery that I thank for its existence. I don't know if there are more of this style on the internet or if it's the only one.
With that it is unique, I mean in the objectivity of the results it issues with its reviews. There is neither cheating nor cardboard (I don't know, Google will translate this but in Spain it is a very popular saying haha)
I myself have renewed my electronics with the most favorable reviews in terms of speakers and amplifiers, to start from something totally objective. Then my personal tastes will come to continue with them or not.
By this I mean that (here it is fully demonstrated) more money is not always more quality and this industry feeds on great puffs of that premise and the poor incredulous people who let themselves be advised by shop assistants/websites make them believe in that rule of 3
In short, and as a general rule, high-end audio cables, filters and electrical current cables have been shown to be absolutely useless and cost an arm and a leg!
Another thing that should be noted is that tube amplifiers or turntables practically do not enter this website "by principle"... so highly valued by music-loving audiophiles... hmm, does your THR have something to do with it? and they can be more expensive than a lambo...

I hope no one gets angry and we can discuss. Greetings from Barcelona!


original

Buenos das
Ante todo me disculpo por mi baja participación en este foro y el tiempo que me gustarla dedicar para saber si lo que voy a escribir es posible que ya lo haya escrito otro miembro, me discupo de nuevo
He de decir que para mi esta web es una especie de salvación, mesias o guru real en cuanto Audiofilia se refiere y un descrumimiento pordigioso que doy las gracias de su existencia . No se si hay más de este estilo por internet o es la única .
Con que es única me refiero en la objetividad de los resultados que emite con sus reviews. No hay ni trampa ni cartón ( no se coro traducirá esto google pero en España es un dicho muy popular jaja)
Yo mismo he renovado mi electrónica con las reviews más favorables en cuanto a altavoces y amplificadores se refiere para partir de algo totalmente objetivo . Luego ya vendrán mis gustos personales para seguir con ellos o no.
Con esto quiero decir que, ( aquí queda totalmente demostrado ) más dinero no siempre es más calidad y esta industria se nutre de grandes bocanadas de esa premisa y los pobres incrédulos que se dejan asesorar por dependientes /webs les hacen creer en esa regla de 3
En resumen y por norma general los cables de audio de alta gama , filtros y cables de corriente eléctrica queda demostrado que no sirven absolutamente para nada y cuestan un ojo de la cara!
Otra cosa que cabe destacar es que en esta web "por principios" prácticamente no entran amplificadores de valvulas ni giradiscos...tan cotizados por los audiofilos melómanos ...mmmm tendrá algo que ver su THR ? y pueden ser más caros que un lambo...
Espero que nadie se enfade y podamos debatir. Saludos desde Barcelona!

 

[Owl]

I agree, Jim it is easy to get caught up in the gear, especially as the price comes down. I now have two perfectly capable dacs sitting in the closet. In response to the post, Amir has tested several phono stages, which is really where the action is in regards to record playing.

 

[Rednaxela]

Am I sure about what?

 

[tomtoo]

good morning
First of all I apologize for my low participation in this forum and the time that I would like to dedicate to find out if what I am going to write is possible that another member has already written it, I apologize again
I have to say that for me this website is a kind of salvation, messiah or real guru as far as Audiophilia is concerned and a prodigious discovery that I thank for its existence. I don't know if there are more of this style on the internet or if it's the only one.
With that it is unique, I mean in the objectivity of the results it issues with its reviews. There is neither cheating nor cardboard (I don't know, Google will translate this but in Spain it is a very popular saying haha)
I myself have renewed my electronics with the most favorable reviews in terms of speakers and amplifiers, to start from something totally objective. Then my personal tastes will come to continue with them or not.
By this I mean that (here it is fully demonstrated) more money is not always more quality and this industry feeds on great puffs of that premise and the poor incredulous people who let themselves be advised by shop assistants/websites make them believe in that rule of 3
In short, and as a general rule, high-end audio cables, filters and electrical current cables have been shown to be absolutely useless and cost an arm and a leg!
Another thing that should be noted is that tube amplifiers or turntables practically do not enter this website "by principle"... so highly valued by music-loving audiophiles... hmm, does your THR have something to do with it? and they can be more expensive than a lambo...

I hope no one gets angry and we can discuss. Greetings from Barcelona!


original

Buenos das
Ante todo me disculpo por mi baja participación en este foro y el tiempo que me gustarla dedicar para saber si lo que voy a escribir es posible que ya lo haya escrito otro miembro, me discupo de nuevo
He de decir que para mi esta web es una especie de salvación, mesias o guru real en cuanto Audiofilia se refiere y un descrumimiento pordigioso que doy las gracias de su existencia . No se si hay más de este estilo por internet o es la única .
Con que es única me refiero en la objetividad de los resultados que emite con sus reviews. No hay ni trampa ni cartón ( no se coro traducirá esto google pero en España es un dicho muy popular jaja)
Yo mismo he renovado mi electrónica con las reviews más favorables en cuanto a altavoces y amplificadores se refiere para partir de algo totalmente objetivo . Luego ya vendrán mis gustos personales para seguir con ellos o no.
Con esto quiero decir que, ( aquí queda totalmente demostrado ) más dinero no siempre es más calidad y esta industria se nutre de grandes bocanadas de esa premisa y los pobres incrédulos que se dejan asesorar por dependientes /webs les hacen creer en esa regla de 3
En resumen y por norma general los cables de audio de alta gama , filtros y cables de corriente eléctrica queda demostrado que no sirven absolutamente para nada y cuestan un ojo de la cara!
Otra cosa que cabe destacar es que en esta web "por principios" prácticamente no entran amplificadores de valvulas ni giradiscos...tan cotizados por los audiofilos melómanos ...mmmm tendrá algo que ver su THR ? y pueden ser más caros que un lambo...
Espero que nadie se enfade y podamos debatir. Saludos desde Barcelona!

Tube amplifiers are in here. Its just they got not handled like the hollly grale in here. They have to perform.
TT's are a mess to measure. From my point of view, @amirm should use his time for importend things.

 

[Multicore]

Another thing that should be noted is that tube amplifiers or turntables practically do not enter this website "by principle"... so highly valued by music-loving audiophiles... hmm, does your THR have something to do with it? and they can be more expensive than a lambo...

Tubes and turntables are obsolete technologies so the number of new products and design innovations using them is pretty low compared to when they were state of the art. So there's just less to review and talk about. Plenty of ASR contributors like, use and enjoy talking about TTs and tubes and everything related to them but it's just not whre the real action is at in terms of product development. Hence Amir and the other testers mostly don't test them, with the exception of phono preamps.

 

[fpitas]

Am I sure about what?

If you have to ask...

/

 

[danielbaen]

First of all thank you very much for answering. If I can't agree more with Jim and I apologize if it wasn't understood correctly. I think the answers I read are on the same path as my thinking
I must say that I am also a movie lover and right now I just bought a Denon 8500 which for music and dolby atmos is incredible... I have all the speakers that the equipment allows in my modest semi/dedicated room and I have noticed a brutal change in as for sound.
I know it's practically a "crime" but there are albums that are incredible to hear in multichannel format
Returning to the subject and as a request from the most absolute humility, I would love for Amir to review such expensive Mcintosh devices.

Ante todo muchas gracias por responder. Si no puedo estar mas de acuerdo con Jim y pido disculpas sino se entendió bien. Creo que las respuestas que leo van por el mismo camino que mi pensamiento
Debo decir que también soy amante del cine y ahora mismo acabo de adquirir un Denon 8500 que para música y dolby atmos es increíble... Tengo todos los altavoces que permite el equipo en mi modesta habitación semi/dedicada y he notado un cambio brutal en cuanto a sonido.
Se que prácticamente es un "delito" pero hay albums que son increíbles oírlos en formato multicanal
Volviendo al tema y como peteción desde la más absoluta humildad , adoraria que Amir hiciera review de los aparatos tan caros Mcintosh

 

[radix]

Returning to the subject and as a request from the most absolute humility, I would love for Amir to review such expensive Mcintosh devices.

There was recently a review of an MC462 by Erin that got a fair bit of comments here.

For turntables, tube amps, etc., I think it's recognized that some people like or prefer that sound, and as a personal preference there's nothing wrong with it and it's discussed here. But I think the point of ASR is to quantify sound reproduction accuracy, not colored personal preferences. It sure has helped me cut through a lot of hifi BS.

Another thing that is not measured is usability. I'm personally willing to pay more for a more usable system, e.g. one with customizable input names or a remote without a lot of junk buttons on it, etc.

 

[symphara]

To be honest, I thought this was about Microsoft airbags.

 

[egellings]

If you take the time to scan this forum, you'll find many posts concerning tubes, turntables and vinyl. They are not rejected "on principle" at all. If they are rejected, they are rejected on the basis of function ..... or more accurately, lack of function.
If tomorrow, someone came up with a tube circuit that was electrically efficient, exhibited 120 dB SINAD, was stable for 10 years and sold for a competitive price, people here would be all over it in a instant. But that doesn't exist.

And beware of "music-loving audiophiles". Some people who claim to love music actually love equipment instead. If they really loved music, they'd gravitate to the equipment that reproduced the music most accurately, so that they could enjoy it to the greatest degree.

Jim

I think the tube amp is viewed more as a pet than an amplifier. Nothing's too good for my little Fi-fi. Do you understand? N-n-n-n-nothing! Once the amplifier becomes a pet, then it can do no wrong, even if it occasionally piddles on the sonic carpet.

 

[subframe]

And beware of "music-loving audiophiles". Some people who claim to love music actually love equipment instead. If they really loved music, they'd gravitate to the equipment that reproduced the music most accurately, so that they could enjoy it to the greatest degree.

Jim

It cuts both ways, many here seem to love measurements and charts more than they love music.

It’s true with any hobby. Some people love pens more than drawing, some love talking about drawing apps, some love to draw…

 

[computer-audiophile]

It cuts both ways, many here seem to love measurements and charts more than they love music.

It’s true with any hobby. Some people love pens more than drawing, some love talking about drawing apps, some love to draw…

Good point - thanks!

 

[computer-audiophile]

I think the tube amp is viewed more as a pet than an amplifier. Nothing's too good for my little Fi-fi. Do you understand? N-n-n-n-nothing! Once the amplifier becomes a pet, then it can do no wrong, even if it occasionally piddles on the sonic carpet.

Why not?

The eye listens too and rejoices. Unfortunately, a cheap Chinese DAC from Topping or a professional monitor speaker has not much to offer in this respect. Imo it is best to have several listening places, just as you have differently furnished rooms with a mix of classics with modern style.

 

[egellings]

Why not?

The eye listens too and rejoices. Unfortunately, a cheap Chinese DAC from Topping or a professional monitor speaker has not much to offer in this respect. Imo it is best to have several listening places, just as you have differently furnished rooms with a mix of classics with modern style.

The appearance of the glowing tubes does add a certain charm for those who enjoy them. It's possible to enjoy both the music and the equipment generating it.

 

[MattHooper]

If you take the time to scan this forum, you'll find many posts concerning tubes, turntables and vinyl. They are not rejected "on principle" at all. If they are rejected, they are rejected on the basis of function ..... or more accurately, lack of function.
If tomorrow, someone came up with a tube circuit that was electrically efficient, exhibited 120 dB SINAD, was stable for 10 years and sold for a competitive price, people here would be all over it in a instant. But that doesn't exist.

Bingo.

And beware of "music-loving audiophiles". Some people who claim to love music actually love equipment instead. If they really loved music, they'd gravitate to the equipment that reproduced the music most accurately, so that they could enjoy it to the greatest degree.

Jim

People don't need accurate equipment to enjoy music "to the greatest degree." Our brains are quite good at making due with what we've got. Music has been the subject of deep love, life-changing even, for countless people since the recording age, and very few music listeners have had "accurate" systems. It would be absurd to say passionate fans of The Beatles, Elvis, Ornette Coleman, Bach, or countless other musicians, were not "real music lovers" because they didn't have accurate systems.

That goes for any music lover, audiophile or otherwise.

I believe you are seeing things through your own bubble of interest, in this case.

 

[egellings]

Bingo.



People don't need accurate equipment to enjoy music "to the greatest degree." Our brains are quite good at making due with what we've got. Music has been the subject of deep love, life-changing even, for countless people since the recording age, and very few music listeners have had "accurate" systems. It would be absurd to say passionate fans of The Beatles, Elvis, Ornette Coleman, Bach, or countless other musicians, were not "real music lovers" because they didn't have accurate systems.

That goes for any music lover, audiophile or otherwise.

I believe you are seeing things through your own bubble of interest, in this case.

No human ear is able to fully appreciate a SINAD of 120dB. That is, if this were reduced to 100dB SINAD, the listener would not be able to notice that. That is vastly better than needed for well reproduced sound, as heard by the human ear. I applaud the engineering that makes a 120dB SINAD possible, though.

 

[SSS]

Restored many tube amps in the past. They measure not bad but also not really good. Noise, hum and tube individual data dependent.
For guitar amps this is very well accepted by musicians. Therefore myself I always used transistorized amps because of stability, almost no heat development and trouble free. But I know lovers of the audio tube sound especially used with vinyl records. For me this is OK, it is a question of personal taste and nothing wrong with it. I think that the human brain is very forgiving if there is some kind of distortion or frequency non-linearity.

 

[egellings]

Restored many tube amps in the past. They measure not bad but also not really good. Noise, hum and tube individual data dependent.
For guitar amps this is very well accepted by musicians. Therefore myself I always used transistorized amps because of stability, almost no heat development and trouble free. But I know lovers of the audio tube sound especially used with vinyl records. For me this is OK, it is a question of personal taste and nothing wrong with it. I think that the human brain is very forgiving if there is some kind of distortion or frequency non-linearity.

Agree; use what you like, even if your choice is for equipment that manages to sound good to you despite less than stellar measurements. It's your nun-handles you have to please, not someone else's. You do owe it to yourself, however, to audition excellent-measuring equipment before deciding on something that you may later regret. A euphonic piece may start to get old after a while. Then again, if it's your cuppa tea, it may not.

 

[fpitas]

Tubes have a unique place for guitar amps, the distortion is the characteristic sound of a HiWatt, Marshall, Fender etc. It can easily be about 30% THD. Not hi-fi by any stretch.

 

[egellings]

Tubes have a unique place for guitar amps, the distortion is the characteristic sound of a HiWatt, Marshall, Fender etc. It can easily be about 30% THD. Not hi-fi by any stretch.

The guitar amp is built to produce distortion. Tubes do not generate that amount of distortion when the circuit design is competent as tube designs go.