Are you sure?

[fpitas]

The guitar amp is built to produce distortion. Tubes do not generate that amount of distortion when the circuit design is competent as tube designs go.

No, of course not. But it's tough to get the same gritty sound with SS.

 

[tuga]

If they really loved music, they'd gravitate to the equipment that reproduced the music most accurately, so that they could enjoy it to the greatest degree.

 

[egellings]

Tubes have a unique place for guitar amps, the distortion is the characteristic sound of a HiWatt, Marshall, Fender etc. It can easily be about 30% THD. Not hi-fi by any stretch.

It's possible to get performance good enough from a tube amp that it is difficult to tell the difference in its S.Q. from a well-designed S.S. one as long as both are operated within their capabilities. Of course, if you do that, then why bother with tubes? Guitar amps are often overloaded during play, and tubes do that differently than S.S. ones do, and that's part of the tube charm in that application. In a home audio setting, amps are never intentionally overloaded, as the goal is to reproduce sound, not generate it, so people go for tubes for other reasons, like appearance, and in some cases, adjustment of bias current and other maintenance chores. Then there's the whole area of tube rolling, a process not easy to do or even possible with more complex S.S. designs. It's the fiddly nature of tube amps that generates the charm for some. For the construction-oriented hobbyist, chances of project success are much better than with a S.S. one because tube circuits are simpler and more forgiving of minor design errors that would be catastrophic for a S.S. attempt.

 

[MattHooper]

It's possible to get performance good enough from a tube amp that it is difficult to tell the difference in its S.Q. from a well-designed S.S. one as long as both are operated within their capabilities. Of course, if you do that, then why bother with tubes?

I've always felt that way too. Why bother making a tube amp sound like an SS amp?

But then, that's from the perspective of someone like me, who likes the idea of tube amps sounding different.

I can imagine that someone who values accuracy may still find tube amps are kinda cool, aesthetically and conceptually, and may be in to building amps too, so achieving a high performance tube amp would sort of give them a kick and the best of both worlds.

 

[Timcognito]

The appearance of the glowing tubes does add a certain charm for those who enjoy them. It's possible to enjoy both the music and the equipment generating it.

Get a Nixie Clock and an amp with good specs. Done

 

[krabapple]

I'm not sure why this thread exists.

 

[egellings]

I've always felt that way too. Why bother making a tube amp sound like an SS amp?

But then, that's from the perspective of someone like me, who likes the idea of tube amps sounding different.

I can imagine that someone who values accuracy may still find tube amps are kinda cool, aesthetically and conceptually, and may be in to building amps too, so achieving a high performance tube amp would sort of give them a kick and the best of both worlds.

Agree. My goal as an EE type was to make a pair of tube power amplifiers as good as possible with tubes. I also wanted to avoid ending up with a pair of behemoths, like that giant Carver one (4 huge chasses!) currently being gushed over. I settled on a circlotron (bridge) design, which allowed an OPT with a relatively small turns ratio of only 8:1, as opposed to ratios of 20:1 or more for conventional designs. Negative feedback is used, and so is positive feedback, which is used to bootstrap the driver stage to the output tubes. Twisted up & stacked my own OPTs. The result is a pair of amps that measure well as tube amps go, but still have a smidge of that tube sound. They tickle my nun-handles just right. The low turns ratio also made it much easier to minimize leakage inductance, which is an unwanted parasitic in an output transformer.

 

[computer-audiophile]

I don't miss any accuracy in my tube amplifiers, quite the opposite. I also have no problem with S/N, I can go with my ear to the loudspeaker, there is silence without signal.
For me it is fascinating what excellent results can be achieved with ancient triodes that date back to the very first sound film amplifiers a hundred years ago.

I have demonstrated this more than once e.g. by giving concerts for loudspeakers. On the picture that was in France @ CARMEN - Centre Alsacien de Recherche pour une Musique Electronique Nouvelle.

 

[computer-audiophile]

Agree. My goal as an EE type was to make a pair of tube power amplifiers as good as possible with tubes. I also wanted to avoid ending up with a pair of behemoths, like that giant Carver one (4 huge chasses!) currently being gushed over. I settled on a circlotron (bridge) design, which allowed an OPT with a relatively small turns ratio of only 8:1, as opposed to ratios of 20:1 or more for conventional designs. Negative feedback is used, and so is positive feedback, which is used to bootstrap the driver stage to the output tubes. Twisted up & stacked my own OPTs. The result is a pair of amps that measure well as tube amps go, but still have a smidge of that tube sound. They tickle my nun-handles just right.

Can you post a photo of your amp/setup, please? This could be interesting!

 

[egellings]

Can you post a photo of your amp/setup, please? This could be interesting!

Here is my tube amp home brewed setup:

The preamp I even named! "His Reference!". I did not skimp in the iron. All transformers are made by me on a coil winder I share with a partner in tube amp crime, who has recently passed away, sadly. I might have gotten carried away with all the iron, but, I like my iron!

 

[ErVikingo]

Bienvenido! Por mi parte mi equipo tiene amplificadores de válvulas y también solid state. Mi preamplificador es de válvulas. Nada de distorsión, nada de ruido en las bocinas/parlantes. Me encanta como suena. Comparando contra mi receiver Denon AVR y contra otros amplificadores SS (de alta gama) que tengo, el sonido de los tubos es más a mi gusto (importante, "a mí gusto"). Para películas y efectos uso Denon con otros parlantes.

Esto es lo que es difícil de entender para algunos. Todos tenemos preferencias en vestimenta, comidas, bebidas, arquitectura, bicicletas, etc. Es lo que le agrade a cada cual. Habiendo dicho eso, tengo 3 Orbea! Algunos apreciamos la arquitectura de Gaudi y otros la encuentran horrible y con complejidad excesiva.

 

[computer-audiophile]

Here is my tube amp home brewed setup:

The preamp I even named! "His Reference!". I did not skimp in the iron. All transformers are made by me on a coil winder I share with a partner in tube amp crime, who has recently passed away, sadly.

Thank you - obviously heavy stuff. A classic boat anchor amp.
I am more into the minimalist circuits and DHT SET amps, but also have built others.

BTW: Same of my former 'tube influencers' from Japan e.g. Naoki Watanabe or my 'Guru' Sakuma San have also passed away in the meantime. The same with my main transformer winder with whom I had optimized my OPTs in an iterative process over years.

On the photo one of my favourite books. This one is named 'Amplifiers with American Tubes'. Mr. Naoki Watanabe wrote this book in 1988.

 

[egellings]

Thank you - obviously heavy stuff. A classic boat anchor amp.
I am more into the minimalist circuits and DHT SET amps, but also have built others.

BTW: Same of my former 'tube influencers' from Japan e.g. Naoki Watanabe or my 'Guru' Sakuma San have also passed away in the meantime. The same with my main transformer winder with whom I had optimized my OPTs in an iterative process over years.


View attachment 281239

On the photo one of my favourite books. This one is named 'Amplifiers with American Tubes'. Mr. Naoki Watanabe wrote this book in 1988.

Power amps weigh 75 pounds, and you need one for each ear! They'll definitely anchor a boat; no problem. Darn things also manage to sound quite good too. Transformers are a bit overblown, I must admit. I'll never saturate any of that iron, no matter how hard I try, so I can take comfort in that.

 

[egellings]

Get a Nixie Clock and an amp with good specs. Done

Nope! Nixie tubes aren't used to amplify signals; they are merely indicators. Cool ones, I must admit, though. The big circlotron amps do have good specs. Not stellar ones like the Benchmark AHB2, but good enough such that it is difficult to tell the difference between them and the Benchmark. With iron that big, bass is simply not a problem anymore. Again, this performance can be had in a pair of little handheld switch-mode amps. So why bother? Because I enjoyed making them; I learned a few things, and they do tickle my nun-handles. I also like it when a non-audio person sees them and asks if they are radio station transmitters! A fringe benny of having them is that if a burglar breaks in and tries to steal them, that's if he even knows what they are, he may give up on the first lift attempt.

 

[tuga]

Todos tenemos preferencias en vestimenta, comidas, bebidas, arquitectura, bicicletas, etc.

Ha! But did you blind test tus preferencias?

 

[ErVikingo]

Ha! But did you blind test tus preferencias?

he he he. I have been fortunate enough to have listened to several superb systems from very affordable to stupidly expensive. Bring the same material always. Now if i could control the tinnitus .......

 

[tuga]

he he he. I have been fortunate enough to have listened to several superb systems from very affordable to stupidly expensive. Bring the same material always. Now if i could control the tinnitus .......

I was thinking about the bicis, difícil to blind test.

 

[ErVikingo]

I was thinking about the bicis, difícil to blind test.

he he he. I agree!!!!!!!!

 

[Dismayed]

The appearance of the glowing tubes does add a certain charm for those who enjoy them. It's possible to enjoy both the music and the equipment generating it.

I do have tube headphone amp. There may be more accurate amps available, but the tube amp sounds very good. On the plus side, I can use it to warm my hands during cold New England winters.

 

[egellings]

Thank you - obviously heavy stuff. A classic boat anchor amp.
I am more into the minimalist circuits and DHT SET amps, but also have built others.

BTW: Same of my former 'tube influencers' from Japan e.g. Naoki Watanabe or my 'Guru' Sakuma San have also passed away in the meantime. The same with my main transformer winder with whom I had optimized my OPTs in an iterative process over years.


View attachment 281239

On the photo one of my favourite books. This one is named 'Amplifiers with American Tubes'. Mr. Naoki Watanabe wrote this book in 1988.

SET amps tend to be much heavier per watt of output than my boat anchors are. SET output transformers have to be large due to the core magnetization inherent in SETs, although gapping the core can help minimize that, even if it clobbers primary inductance.