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Are phono cables really diferent from other cables?

reydelanada

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Hello there,

First of all thanks for the forum and all the great work you do for the audio community. I’ve suffered from many of the audio myths myself.

I ended with a nice setup that satisfy me biamping a three way pair of speakers with no passive cx for lows, and using an Analog cx. Listening both digital and vinyl.

Particulary I was fooled with cables. Now I’m convinced by evidence and engineers that power cables do not change the sound, well made xlr cables do not change the sound (not active), digital cables do not change the sound (Sadly as I’ve spent A LOT on an usb and I2s cable), and speaker cables or rca cables might change the sound but so so little you Probably won’t be able to hear it.

But I’m not sure about phono cables. Same? Or phono cables are diferent due to the particular low voltaje capsules transmit?

Thanks a lot and sorry if this has been already talked about… any way hope this still acts as my presentation and greetings.

Regards from spain!
Pablo
 
Hi, yes same thing for phono cables and they don’t have to be anything special. I’ve used BJC RCA cables because they’re low capacitance, but there are many less expensive choices.

One exception is if you use a phono cable with too high of a capacitance while using a MM cartridge, it could affect the sound. Moving magnet cartridge companies usually post a capacitance range that the combined total of your cables, tonearm wiring and phono preamp need to fall in.

Not so far moving coil cartridges, and it’s the impedance loading that needs to be attended to for them.

Edit;

Of course you’ll need a ground wire.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I have had hum and noise issues with one overpriced cable, Nordost Heimdall. Any other RCA I’ve ever used performed well, with no audible difference between them.
 
Three special situations for RCA analog interconnect cables:
1] Phono cartridge to pre-amp input. This use is slightly sensitive to total cable capacitance.
2] Long cables (say over 15 feet/5 meters). These cables need a heavy braided shield.
3] any cable in a high interference location. These cables need a good shield.
 
In my system I have an lyra skala MC cartdrige, a sme 309 tone arm (with stock internal cable don’t know capacitance), an Ortofon 6NX-TSW-1010 phono cable (85pf) to an audio research reference 2 phono preamp.
 
In my system I have an lyra skala MC cartdrige, a sme 309 tone arm (with stock internal cable don’t know capacitance), an Ortofon 6NX-TSW-1010 phono cable (85pf) to an audio research reference 2 phono preamp.
With an MC cartridge it’s not the capacitance that’s important, it’s getting the impedance loading correct. Many times all it takes is a simple push of the button if your phono preamp is MC capable. Some people go to great lengths to match up a step up transformer with the cartridge, and use the MM setting on a phono preamp, or a dedicated MM phono preamp. I went the another route and use an MC cartridge with the Parks puffin with a digital out into a DAC.
 
Important issues for phono cables:

Flexibility- stiffer cables transmit vibration to the tonearm and/or table.
Capacitance- not critical for MC, can be very critical for MM
Triboelectricity- less of an issue for MC, can be an issue with MM. Avoid teflon/silver and you'll be fine.
Shielding- important for normal unbalanced connection. Most cables are OK in this respect, but not all.
 
Important issues for phono cables:

Flexibility- stiffer cables transmit vibration to the tonearm and/or table.
Capacitance- not critical for MC, can be very critical for MM
Triboelectricity- less of an issue for MC, can be an issue with MM. Avoid teflon/silver and you'll be fine.
Shielding- important for normal unbalanced connection. Most cables are OK in this respect, but not all.
I never really thought too much about the vibration part, but that makes sense.

I have a Magnepan tonearm that I’ve never used yet, and they must’ve done some extensive research on the vibration part, and it’s a special two-part cable and it gets secured/clamped to the inside of the plinth.
 
Was this already mentioned?

A good MC cable is balanced, and usually “directional”. Meaning that the shield is connected to the ”cold” signal wire at one end only, the MC/MM preamp. Connect it the other way around, and you are guaranteed a big hum.

This is one of the origins of the cable directionality myth. The high end audio hucksters took this cable configuration properties and conveniently extended it to all cables.
 
Only if the cartridge and pre-amp input/transformer are wired balanced.
Cartridges are naturally balanced sources. This cable configuration applies for a single ended preamp input. If the preamp input is balanced, there’s no need for any special cable, any balanced cable will do (and is not “directional”).
 
Hello there,

First of all thanks for the forum and all the great work you do for the audio community. I’ve suffered from many of the audio myths myself.

I ended with a nice setup that satisfy me biamping a three way pair of speakers with no passive cx for lows, and using an Analog cx. Listening both digital and vinyl.

Particulary I was fooled with cables. Now I’m convinced by evidence and engineers that power cables do not change the sound, well made xlr cables do not change the sound (not active), digital cables do not change the sound (Sadly as I’ve spent A LOT on an usb and I2s cable), and speaker cables or rca cables might change the sound but so so little you Probably won’t be able to hear it.

But I’m not sure about phono cables. Same? Or phono cables are diferent due to the particular low voltaje capsules transmit?

Thanks a lot and sorry if this has been already talked about… any way hope this still acts as my presentation and greetings.

Regards from spain!
Pablo
The answer is yes and no!
Phono interconnects are almost universally plain RCA connectors. Some high end platters use a DIN plug for the table side. HOWEVER, NOT ALL RCAs are built the same, they come in 2 flavors, shielded and unshielded
Shielded RCA's are also known as SPDIF. All turtables should use shielded cables so as to reject high frequency interference. Again never use "regular", "plain Jane" RCA cables on a turntable since almost invariably they will add "hiss" to the signal. This is particularly crucial if you use a moving coil cartridge whose signal is 10 times lower than a moving magnet! The good news is that shielded RCA's are almost as cheap as the regular kind. You can get an excellent pair for 25 dollars or so. Unfortunately you will have to add a separate ground wire which should cost you a whole dollar at most. Mogami makes some very nice shielded RCAs for 30 bucks or so. If price is not such a concern, Ortofon sells a very nice to behold, all in one bundle shielded pair and ground wire that sells for about 300 dollars that comes with either RCA or DIN plug. Again, if the cable is not shielded it can be made from angel's hair and cost a thousand dollars it will still be worse than a 50 dollar pair of SPDIF cables from Radio Shack.
 

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Which though known by another name is a shielded RCA cable.
You have it in the wrong date order. Single-ended coaxial connecters predate digital by decades! They have pretty much always been the common domestic connector for whole history of HiFi The only sensible design of the cable is a coaxial, with the outer as the screen. When domestic VHS took off, they were often adopted again for video. Because of this, in the 1980s when S/PDIF developers were considering a cheap highly available cable they picked the same one used for domestic video. So S/PDIF USES a common connector type previously used for domestic analogue audio and video. The cable type and connector is NOT named after S/PDIF.
 
And your point is? SPDIF is a fully shielded cable with RCA connectors. Ergo much better than non shielded RCA's for phono connections. The history lesson is a moot point. BTW the RCA connector was the originally the phono connector which was later adopted for all "line level" high fi applications. Higher end equipment also include balanced interconnects which offer vastly better RF rejection than any RCA type, but are not in use for phono.
 
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