Arcam AVR20 or Denon x3700h/x4700h

[AllTaken]

Hello,

Quite the price difference between these two models and I wondered which of the two others would buy? I appreciate the Arcam AVR10 did not review well, does it perform worse than the x3700h? How about the x4700h?

I'm asking out of buyers remorse more than anything, I have an AVR20 within a return window, I read Amir's thoughts on the Arcam a bit too late.

Thanks

 

[Gedeon]

It also depends on your speakers and your room. Dirac also gets usually great reviews.

But, since the AVR20 almost double the price of a 4700 I can understand your doubts.

 

[AllTaken]

Thanks for your response.

Dirac gets good reviews, but some say that Dirac inflates the cost - as the hardware, on the Arcam at least, is lacking for the price point which seems to be the main takeaway of Amir's review. I hear great things about audyssey multi xt32 and wonder if a receiver at half-third the cost of the Arcam can compete/excel the Arcam performance.

I'm also looking at the 4500h against the 4700h, and as best I can tell I miss out on speaker memories, bluetooth transmission and 8k input? The 4500h can be had for almost 4x less....

My speakers are Klipsch R-625FA x4 and a RP200C on centre duties, BK Monolith+ Subwoofer, 5.1.4 - Room size is 16ft x 22ft. I will be looking at 7.2.4 in the future.

 

[Gedeon]

For that room size and those speakers the 4700 should be enough.

However, to feed 11 speakers, maybe (just maybe)… you could eventually need to add a power amp.

Denon/Marantz get also really hot. So, if you have a good place with space for the AVR to keep the heat under control, and to eventually add a power amp, the Denon 4700 seems a good choice.

 

[AllTaken]

Would you recommend the 4700 over the 4500? 4700 comes in at 60% the 4700 cost and only lacks a couple of things?

 

[Gedeon]

I'd probably go for the 4500 in such case.

 

[Gedeon]

Just to add that maybe other members could have different opinions and that the AVR20 has better amps than 4500, but not 1500$-2000$ better amps.

 

[Puddingbuks]

Out of the box option: a denon 4500/4700 with a purifi stereo power amplifier for front left/right.

 

[AllTaken]

Out of the box option: a denon 4500/4700 with a purifi stereo power amplifier for front left/right.

Thanks, how do you feel the 4500/4700 would compare to the AVR20 based on spec and reviews from Amir? Will I notice a loss in sound depth and performance, perhaps it will be as good or better comparing the amplification?

 

[Puddingbuks]

Specs and sound aside, arcam has terrible unstable software. I think the avr20 is way overpriced.

Spend your money on room treatment and speakers, not on an expensive arcam receiver.

 

[AllTaken]

Is the purifi a DIY only option, requiring a case etc?

 

[hmt]

Why would you want an additional amp? Buy better speakers if you want better performance.

 

[Puddingbuks]

Is the purifi a DIY only option, requiring a case etc?

You can have both, diy and complete devices from different brands, like: https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/powe...ass-d-stereo-purifi-2x400w-4-ohm-p-14393.html

But this is for “ultra” performance. Like @hmt says, try the internal amps first, they may offer enough power and sound quality. Investing in speakers and room treatment will make a bigger difference.

 

[AllTaken]

@hmt I don't want an additional amp. This would replace my AVR20. Sounds like swapping out the AVR20 for a 4500 and using the extra for upgrades elsewhere is wiser.

 

[peng]

Hello,

Quite the price difference between these two models and I wondered which of the two others would buy? I appreciate the Arcam AVR10 did not review well, does it perform worse than the x3700h? How about the x4700h?

I'm asking out of buyers remorse more than anything, I have an AVR20 within a return window, I read Amir's thoughts on the Arcam a bit too late.

Thanks

I may be wrong, but since ASR has not measured the AVR20, it may be reasonable to compare the preamp measurements between the AVR-X4700H and the AV40. I included the AVR10's 5 W (approx.) and Max. W comparison between the AVR10 and AVR-X4700H just for reference.

https://www.arcam.co.uk/ugc/tor/AVR20/User Manual/SH303_EN-FR-DE-NL-ES-RU-IT-CN-KO_IssueF_10Jul20.pdf
http://rn.dmglobal.com/usmodel/AVR-X4700HE3_ENG_PDF_IM_v00(1).pdf
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/arcam-av40-av-processor-review.13242/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/arcam-avr10-review.13671/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/denon-avr-x4700-avr-review-updated.14493/

I can't guarantee 100% accuracy as there may be typos etc., so I included the links to my source of info.

If you believe in bench test measurements, it is hard to imagine the AV40, all else being equal, such as speakers, room acoustics, source media and players etc., can sound better than the Denon. The AV40 measured much worse in THD+N, DN, IMD, Linearity, Jitter, and the 32 tones tests. Based on the test results I would bet in a blind test they would sound similar enough that one cannot tell them apart. If I bet wrong, then I would say the Arcam would sound a little worse because of the much higher IMD.

 

[AllTaken]

@peng That's very helpful, thanks! Would this also apply to the 4500h? Am I missing something that the 4700 brings to the table?

 

[peng]

@peng That's very helpful, thanks! Would this also apply to the 4500h or am I missing something the 4700 brings to the table?

The X4500H has not been tested by ASR so we can only guess. My educated guess is that the X3600/3700/4500/4700H all would have very similar performance but the full preamp mode is only offered on the X3700/4700H. You can use the amp assign function to disconnect the front left and right internal power amps of the X4500H from the pre-outs and expect (again, just educated guess) SINAD as good as the X4700H up to about 2 V or a little more, but the remaining channels cannot be disconnected so you will get degradation in SINAD at preout voltage > 1.4 V. If you look at the graph, SINAD would drop to about 80 dB, that is 0.01% THD+N at 1.6 V and that is high enough to push a 250 W amp to its rated output if the gain is 29 dB or higher.

If you are sure you don't need the latest features that are only offered in the X4700H, then the X4500H may be a better value, depending on the price difference, assuming you can still get a full warranty on the X4500H that is a 2018 model.

 

[DLxP]

I went from the AV40 to the X4700 and don't regret it for a second. The Arcam was awful. It was the worst AVR/AVP I've ever owned (I've owned loads). It barely worked.

 

[jomark911]

I'm not surprised at all.

 

[Taddpole]

Hello,

Quite the price difference between these two models and I wondered which of the two others would buy? I appreciate the Arcam AVR10 did not review well, does it perform worse than the x3700h? How about the x4700h?

I'm asking out of buyers remorse more than anything, I have an AVR20 within a return window, I read Amir's thoughts on the Arcam a bit too late.

Thanks

Did you return it in the end?