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Apollon Hypex NC2K Amplifier Teardown

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A few answers would be good to know:
No, question is how much oem modul costs from hypex.
Here are prices from group buy that has been done early this year :
NC500 - 90 EUR
NC122MP - 112 EUR
NC252MP - 157 EUR
NC502MP - 251 EUR
NC1200 - 275 EUR
NC2k - 395 EUR

These are cheap in terms $ per Watt, so they must cut costs somewhere.
For me the stranger things are companies that putting oem modul into chassis and selling it 5x and more that price. And after that you have to pay 500E for recap with caps that will last longer. How much time it takes: 4 hours for first unit and then I won`t believe that normally it takes more that 2 hours with proper equipment.
 

Apollon Audio

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I have no opinion on this capacitor debate but I find a 1.5% in 5 years failure rate over 5 years a fairly high figure, for a TOTL product. So would you say the MP serie unrecommended? That’s not insignificant numbers, would you know The ratio of MP serie you sell versus separated PSU? The MP serie is only slightly cheaper, not enormous saving there. I personally had a NC500 module fail in a year as well.
I haven’t said that the MP series are not recommended. 65% of our sales are amps based on ( nc500, nc1200 and nc2k). The fail rate of these modules is very very low. The highest fail rate is in MP series modules. Although I haven’t seen a failed module from the newer batches in a while now. But still it is not close to the fail rate of icepower modules. From around 200 installed 1200as2 modules 20 of them failed. The fail rate of icepower modules is higher although they use better caps.
 

jtwrace

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From around 200 installed 1200as2 modules 20 of them failed. The fail rate of icepower modules is higher although they use better caps.
Yes. I myself had 6 of them fail. And when I say fail, I mean FAIL with flames. Not pretty.
 

PeteL

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I haven’t said that the MP series are not recommended. 65% of our sales are amps based on ( nc500, nc1200 and nc2k). The fail rate of these modules is very very low. The highest fail rate is in MP series modules. Although I haven’t seen a failed module from the newer batches in a while now. But still it is not close to the fail rate of icepower modules. From around 200 installed 1200as2 modules 20 of them failed. The fail rate of icepower modules is higher although they use better caps.
Thanks, well the 10% of ice power is simply unacceptable for any products. high end or mass market.
 

Thomas savage

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No, question is how much oem modul costs from hypex.
Here are prices from group buy that has been done early this year :
NC500 - 90 EUR
NC122MP - 112 EUR
NC252MP - 157 EUR
NC502MP - 251 EUR
NC1200 - 275 EUR
NC2k - 395 EUR

These are cheap in terms $ per Watt, so they must cut costs somewhere.
For me the stranger things are companies that putting oem modul into chassis and selling it 5x and more that price. And after that you have to pay 500E for recap with caps that will last longer. How much time it takes: 4 hours for first unit and then I won`t believe that normally it takes more that 2 hours with proper equipment.
This seems confidential information, if you have industry links and or vested interests please declare them .

In no way do we ASR endorse these figures are being correct.

It's just a random guy on the internet ideas lol
 

Apollon Audio

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I have no opinion on this capacitor debate but I find a 1.5% in 5 years failure rate over 5 years a fairly high figure, for a TOTL product. So would you say the MP serie unrecommended? That’s not insignificant numbers, would you know The ratio of MP serie you sell versus separated PSU? The MP serie is only slightly cheaper, not enormous saving there. I personally had a NC500 module fail in a year as well.
I would not agree with your statement.

A stereo nc500 based amplifier has two nc500 modules and two smps1200 power supplies. How can a fail rate be 1.5%? Pease do the math. From all nc500, nc1200 and nc2k based amplfiiers sold I have seen two failed nc500 modules, 1 failed nc1200 module and 1 failed nc2k module. These fail numbers are extremely low compared to the numbers of sold modules.
 

Matias

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No, question is how much oem modul costs from hypex.
Here are prices from group buy that has been done early this year :
NC500 - 90 EUR
NC122MP - 112 EUR
NC252MP - 157 EUR
NC502MP - 251 EUR
NC1200 - 275 EUR
NC2k - 395 EUR

These are cheap in terms $ per Watt, so they must cut costs somewhere.
For me the stranger things are companies that putting oem modul into chassis and selling it 5x and more that price. And after that you have to pay 500E for recap with caps that will last longer. How much time it takes: 4 hours for first unit and then I won`t believe that normally it takes more that 2 hours with proper equipment.
Add at least 200 usd per case and connectors, + 30 usd for wiring, hours of work for assembly and some profit for a living and covering warranties, plus fixed expenses such as website hosting, accounting, etc, and then it is not so much anymore.
 

Apollon Audio

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Add at least 200 usd per case and connectors, + 30 usd for wiring, hours of work for assembly and some profit for a living and covering warranties, plus fixed expenses such as website hosting, accounting, etc, and then it is not so much anymore.
No, question is how much oem modul costs from hypex.
Here are prices from group buy that has been done early this year :
NC500 - 90 EUR
NC122MP - 112 EUR
NC252MP - 157 EUR
NC502MP - 251 EUR
NC1200 - 275 EUR
NC2k - 395 EUR

These are cheap in terms $ per Watt, so they must cut costs somewhere.
For me the stranger things are companies that putting oem modul into chassis and selling it 5x and more that price. And after that you have to pay 500E for recap with caps that will last longer. How much time it takes: 4 hours for first unit and then I won`t believe that normally it takes more that 2 hours with proper equipment.
We also need to add monthly salary for a team of 10 people, cost of big cnc
machines, laser engravers, uv printers, expensive audio analyzers, lots of very expensive tools etc.... We are not a diy operation. We are a serious business with a substantial overhead.
 

Billy Budapest

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Impressive assembly quality. Lots of nice touches such as screwed-in cable ties. The use of silly “discrete opamps” is disheartening, though. Unsure about the utility of discrete voltage regulators, too.
 
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Thomas savage

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We also need to add monthly salary for a team of 10 people, cost of big cnc
machines, laser engravers, uv printers, expensive audio analyzers, lots of very expensive tools etc.... We are not a diy operation. We are a serious business with a substantial overhead.
Don't worry about the ASR ' it should be cheaper ' brigade, they have little to no clue about the associated costs and indeed the services provided by a company vs DIY implementation.

It's brilliant to see your products hold up to the scrutiny here , fantastic performance met by equally competent implementation, and thank you for being such a constructive and conscientious participant here , it's hugely appreciated.
 

Matias

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We also need to add monthly salary for a team of 10 people, cost of big cnc
machines, laser engravers, uv printers, expensive audio analyzers, lots of very expensive tools etc.... We are not a diy operation. We are a serious business with a substantial overhead.
Please do a factory tour video and put on Youtube, everyone likes watching them. :D
 

Billy Budapest

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We also need to add monthly salary for a team of 10 people, cost of big cnc
machines, laser engravers, uv printers, expensive audio analyzers, lots of very expensive tools etc.... We are not a diy operation. We are a serious business with a substantial overhead.
Ah Hah! The manufacturer is here!

Can I ask you this—the use of discrete opamps caters to the audiophile crowd, but not really to the crowd who desires maximum performance. Will you offer buffer boards with standard opamps?
 

Apollon Audio

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Vasr

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I'm not sure where you are getting $50 price when Apollon has quoted 500 Euros for better caps. Increasing a product price 20% for no performance gain and the potential for better reliability is not something most manufacturers would be interested in and I seriously doubt is an "excellent business proposition". You would gain a few audiophile sales but lose most of your customers that would find another NC2k amp for cheaper and go with that.
Talking about two different things.

The $500 is for a custom replacement (desolder/solder) involving manual labor and close to retail sourced components by an integrator. The $50 is closer to the BoM added cost if the Hypex modules came with better quality caps instead. Since integrators like Apollon don't seem to have a choice in specifying what comes with the Hypex modules, this kind of custom upgrade is the only option available and expensive.
 

Vasr

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I looked at photos of the new Purify modules, and it seems that they use capacitors from Rubycon. I guess these are assumed to be of high quality. The question then is why they use this type. Do they over-specify, or do the Purify modules require other capacitors, or does Hypex try to squeeze costs into the price of shorter life. Or is it the case that purifi knows that their new modules will be examined very carefully by demanding customers, and that for that reason they add some eye candy? I do not know, but it seems in all cases that they reasoned differently here.
The assumption being made by many here that these are all necessarily engineering decisions is not always valid. It could very well be logistics reasons. If a manufacturer is building just-in-time to fulfill orders as opposed to building inventory that will remain on shelves before being deployed, the equations could be very different.

The sourcing prices for electronic components in general vary a lot sometimes by order(s) of magnitude depending on volume, brand, etc. If a manufacturer like Hypex is using an Asian manufacturer, some of them can source certain brands much more easily than others (not necessarily correlated to quality) depending on the volumes and relationships they have and the time to market requirements and how many things they build use common components. And all of them would be much cheaper than low volume manufacturers sourcing it themselves.

Getting manufactured in Taiwan in shared factories, for example, won't lead to low labor costs as getting it done in China but their sourcing advantage would still make it worthwhile, say for a US or European manufacturer.
 

Apollon Audio

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Talking about two different things.

The $500 is for a custom replacement (desolder/solder) involving manual labor and close to retail sourced components by an integrator. The $50 is closer to the BoM added cost if the Hypex modules came with better quality caps instead. Since integrators like Apollon don't seem to have a choice in specifying what comes with the Hypex modules, this kind of custom upgrade is the only option available and expensive.
Yes indeed and we also loose warranty coverage from Hypex when we recap the modules in house. I just talked with Hypex few hours ago and unfortunately it is not an option to order custom modules with better caps from them. So the only option left is that we do recapping with better caps in the house, which is a very time consuming process. For a stereo amp like our NC1200 based amp for instance we need around 6-8 hours in order to do the job professionally and very precise. All the caps are glued together which makes the job even harder. This is why this procedure costs additional 500 Euro for a stereo amplifier.
 
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