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Apollon Hypex NC2K Amplifier Teardown

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Willem

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We all know John want his HiFi to last 50 years but technology is moving on at a faster and faster pace. You may not like it but how many of todays hifi products will be relevant in 20 years?
This argument certainly applies to DACs or disc players, but I am not so sure about amplifiers. Yes, there are impressive modern designs, but amplifiers have been sonically good enough for quite a long time and excellent current designs like Benchmark, Hypex etc are certainly beyond the threshold of human hearing. Manufacturing technology has improved, and so has electricity consumption, but audio quality? I am still using a Quad 606-2 power amplifier that I bought second hand. It had been completely refurbished by a retired Quad NL service engineer, with all capacitors and resistors replaced by modern high quality ones from top tier manufacturers. The service engineer argued that the original parts were not nearly as good as the best modern ones from the likes of Philips, Nichicon etc, and the amplifier would now last me for at least another 25 years (20 years left and counting). Components are cheap and labour is expensive was the logic. The only reason I might replace the amplifier is that I think I may want more power than its 2x140 watt (but the speakers cannot handle that much more).
 

March Audio

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This argument certainly applies to DACs or disc players, but I am not so sure about amplifiers. Yes, there are impressive modern designs, but amplifiers have been sonically good enough for quite a long time and excellent current designs like Benchmark, Hypex etc are certainly beyond the threshold of human hearing. Manufacturing technology has improved, and so has electricity consumption, but audio quality? I am still using a Quad 606-2 power amplifier that I bought second hand. It had been completely refurbished by a retired Quad NL service engineer, with all capacitors and resistors replaced by modern high quality ones from top tier manufacturers. The service engineer argued that the original parts were not nearly as good as the best modern ones from the likes of Philips, Nichicon etc, and the amplifier would now last me for at least another 25 years (20 years left and counting). Components are cheap and labour is expensive was the logic. The only reason I might replace the amplifier is that I think I may want more power than its 2x140 watt (but the speakers cannot handle that much more).
Sure, if you assume that the nature of Hifi will remain the same. Will you have a separate amp, dac etc or will the tech and customer demands evolve to where separates are of no benefit technically/sonically? Will people increasingly demand a small unobtrusive box that does it all? I think we are already seeing that happen.

Without making comment on the rights and wrongs of the situation, I dont think many consumers see lasting 25 years as a requirement in a technology product.
 
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I tested some caps in a piece of hifi equipment from the mid 70s just yesterday, the caps were all nippon chemicon and I was ready to recap the whole thing, but I wanted to do some testing first and found that all the caps measured like new, seriously, the main filter cap 1000uF/25V had an ESR of just 30 milliohm @ 10kHz. Didn't find a single bad cap, even removed some of the caps and looked at the pins under a microscope, no corrosion visible.

go Japan !

and tragically America did once make excellent components decades ago
 

Apollon Audio

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How much would it add if you did it to all production as standard practice?

We are charging around 500 Euros to recap all modules with better caps for a stereo Hypex based amp (NC400, NC500, NC1200, NC2K). This procedure takes a lot of time and we use the best professional desoldering tools from Weller to do this job. It is very time consuming so a standard practice to all production would be impossible but I will talk with Hypex about the possibility of making custom modules for us with better caps.
 
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March Audio

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We sold more than 1000 amplifiers worldwide. We are in this business since 2015. From around 1000 Hypex based amps that we sold there were not more than 15 faulty modules. None had a bad cap issue. 90% of the faulty modules were the Hypex MP series. The fail rate of Hypex modules is very low. I’m not advocating these caps used by Hypex at all. I’m just sharing our experience with these modules. Most of these caps have a lifetime of 5.000 rated at 105°C. None of these caps on the modules run at 105°C so a far longer lifetime
is to be expected.
Our experience is very similar. Based on the 10 deg temp drop = double life they are going to last significantly longer.
 

Willem

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I dont think many consumers see lasting 25 years as a requirement in a technology product.
I certainly prefer that, if only because it avoids the hassle of replacing stuff. So my analogue cameras and lenses have been Nikons, the washing machine and the dryer Miele, and the audio gear mostly Quad. The house we had built for us is similarly specced, and that saves so much worry for not that much more investment. Life is too short to have to go and think about buying new every ten years or so.
I agree that the audio market is moving towards simple one box solutions such as Sonos, but it was precisely to have the new facilites and still continue to use my existing excellent gear that I liked the Chromecast Audio: one 35 euro puck that took me into the modern age.
 
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March Audio

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1603272341833.png


So assuming life rating of 5000 hrs at 105 dec C and a real world operating temp of 65 deg C:

L = 5000 x 2 x 5
L= 50000 hours
 
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I put out the call; does anyone know anyone that has had a capacitor failure in a hypex or similar class D module, in the 10 to 15 years they been out, that can prove it; thus far?

all my Jeff Rowland amplifiers , based and Bang and olufsen ICE class D amps developed strange noises and were replaced by my dealer . He was a gentleman. Those amps were pure shit. I didint 7nderstand what audiophiles meant by “ fatiguing ” until I used to fall asleep in front of those amps
 

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I put out the call; does anyone know anyone that has had a capacitor failure in a hypex or similar class D module, in the 10 to 15 years they been out, that can prove it; thus far?

I had a ucd10 capacitor failure after about 5 yrs of light use in an lx521 system. Will see if I can find some pics. The other 5 ucd10 and 2 ucd400 are still running fine
 

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Those amps were pure shit. I didint 7nderstand what audiophiles meant by “ fatiguing ” until I used to fall asleep in front of those amps
Help. I fall asleep every other night on the couch while I listen to music. So it's because of bad capacitors in my amplifier. And I who just have a brand new amplifier...:facepalm:
 

Mulder

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Sure, if you assume that the nature of Hifi will remain the same. Will you have a separate amp, dac etc or will the tech and customer demands evolve to where separates are of no benefit technically/sonically? Will people increasingly demand a small unobtrusive box that does it all? I think we are already seeing that happen.
Without making comment on the rights and wrongs of the situation, I dont think many consumers see lasting 25 years as a requirement in a technology product.
Well. In the past (in the seventies and maybe 80s) a HiFi system was found in almost every home, and many younger people had a dream of getting a really good system. I think that today's HiFi consumers largely consist of this group that got their interest founded maybe 30 to 40 years ago. Younger people do not have the same interest today, nor are they so interested in spending the sometimes very large sums of money that HiFi costs today. So the question is what future HiFi has at all in 20 to 30 years' time. Today's trends are pretty much about fashion, and are driven by an industry that is more interested in establishing myths than in real objective sound quality. (The relationship between sound quality and price is rather weak or above a certain level, perhaps even non-existent.) Retro is also a strong element. In HiFi there is a existence of what could be called a sort of commodity fetishism. Super heavy amplifiers, with ring core transformers, old technology, such as turntables and vinyl - preferably old models from the 70s or 80s. However, it is difficult to imagine that today's class D will end up on the used market and be sold as retro stuff in 30 years. In terms of longevity. I do not know what to expect. But I think it is desirable to build so that things last as long as possible. We live in a world where a shortage of resources (on raw materials) and increased environmental problems require a different type of long-term perspective than today's consumption hysteria offers. (And here you can also think about how sensible it is with class-A amplifiers that draw type 200-300 watts constantly.)
 
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anmpr1

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Lots of power into low impedance loads. Excellent internal construction technique. Poor external fit 'n finish (although, from the pics, their 'premium' line appears to looks quite respectable, cosmetically, for seven thousand dollars a pair). At least questionable use of certain caps in the Hypex modules, which the manufacturer can upgrade for 600 USD each, but at the same time claims that the actual amp's failure rate is very low, and is in any case is not from caps. Making the total for a two channel set up from 5000 to 7000 USD dollars (depending upon one's upgrade path). Less than industry standard warranty (two years v. the typical three years v. five years for Benchmark).

In any large dollar purchase one has to weigh the pros and cons. I don't need that kind of power, so it's not my thing. If I did, and if I lived near the factory (do they even have a 'presence' in the US?), and if they stepped up their warranty game (if their failure rate is as low as they claim then why not add a couple of three years to the warranty?), then I'd put it on my list of things to check out.
 

Helicopter

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@restorer-john makes a good point in the Rolls Royce engine comparison. World-class products use world-class materials and components almost without exception. The analogy to some hifi gear is fair, especially for some of the vintage stuff.

@March Audio makes a good point too; you don't need to exceed your own specifications, and it would be a waste of money to do so.

An aerospace company has specs that require top-end components proven out by rigorous testing, usually of every batch, down to the screws. A military helicopter radio that sounds like a cheap AM radio can cost $30k (or more), but it will probably be reliable, and it will definitely have good components.

I don't have a big problem with say and NC400 module being essentially disposable at its price, but I don't have any illusion it is Rockwell Collins. I don't have any illusion it is TOTL hifi either. I think of the whole module as a replaceable component.

I agree, in a $2k+ amp, I would want good caps too, and I wouldn't buy this. I would buy a less expensive stereo NC400 or something similar though.
 

Willem

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Younger people do not have the same interest today, nor are they so interested in spending the sometimes very large sums of money that HiFi costs today. So the question is what future HiFi has at all in 20 to 30 years' time. Today's trends are pretty much about fashion, and are driven by an industry that is more interested in establishing myths than in real objective sound quality. (The relationship between sound quality and price is rather weak or above a certain level, perhaps even non-existent.) Retro is also a strong element.
Of course, the biggest advances have been in modern design and manufacturing technology and hence in the price/quality relation for the cheaper stuff. A good example would be the Ikea speakers for the Sonos ecosystem, but there are other examples from big non-audio companies that have the size to invest in good audio engineering (Apple are a good case in point).
 

Koeitje

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Fatiguing sound can make u tired

i don’t have that problem with class A
That is not what fatiguing usually means in the context of audio. It means you want to keep turning down the value because the sound is an assault on your ears. Usually this is caused by clipping, brickwalled mastering or exaggerated highs.
 

Jake71

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YOU can conclude whatever YOU like ;)

I don't understand why you're being so defensive, why not see this as an opportunity and start offering modules with upgraded capacitors for a little extra, sounds like an excellent business proposition to me. Then the end user can decide for themselves if they think the cheap caps will be just fine or they'd rather pay an additional $50+ to get modules with premium caps. You could even offer DIY cap kits for those who like to swing their own solder iron.
 

anmpr1

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Class A is realy a primitive way to use power. The only more primitive way is to use class a tubes.
In my experience, Class A is really a marketing fool ... I mean tool. I had one of those Yamaha amps with the Class A switch on the front panel and frankly, at low power levels, couldn't tell any difference from flipping the switch. Why pay more for less?
That is not what fatiguing usually means in the context of audio. It means you want to keep turning down the value because the sound is an assault on your ears. Usually this is caused by clipping, brickwalled mastering or exaggerated highs.
I'd add distortion as the number one cause. That is, loudspeaker distortion. With super low distortion loudspeakers (which are usually highly sensitive by design, and larger in form factor) you can damage your hearing before you realize that they are playing too loud. That is because the overall distortion is so low.
 
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