Any truth to speakers being better with a more powerful amp?

[Mattknz]

I did not read the entire thread so apologies if this has already been covered. AND I am not an amplifier guy so I welcome correction from anyone who is, anyway the following will not be strictly accurate but I think the trends described are in the ballpark.

When it comes to the amplification section of AVRs, the fine print matters. What exactly does the Denon's spec sheet say? The following will be a hypotherical "worst case scenario" - I am NOT accusing Denon of being this optimistic with their specs! But this will be something that imo is worth being aware of.

IF the spec sheet of an over-optimistically-rated AVR says something like "100 watts per channel at 1 kHz with one channel driven", and then they multiply that 100 watts by the number of channels, say six, they might claim that it's a "600 watt" receiver. If the limiting factor is the power supply, which is quite likely, then the actual output with all six channels driven equally might only be 100/6 = 16.7 watts. This is an extreme example, for illustration purposes.

If you are only using the front three channels, we'd be looking at 33.3 watts per channel, assuming our hypothetical wimpy power supply only delivers enough power for the amplifier modules to put out a combined total of 100 watts.

But it gets worse.

That 33.3 watts/channel with only the front three channels driven is with a 1 kHz sine wave. Real program material is much more broadband,. and amplifiers generally deliver far less wattage broadband than they do into a sine wave. Like maybe ballpark 20% of their sinewave power output. So now our 33.3 watts sine-wave is down to about 7 watts broad-band.

Something like the above might be why your dealer used the term "soft power".

(The substantial difference between an amplifier's sine-wave power output and broadband power output was described to me by the late, great Henry Wolcott, who designed an outstanding tube amp. It was based on a tube amp that he designed for powering a bank of computer hard drives for a large government contractor; unfortunately I don't recall why tubes were preferred for that application. Henry's day job also included designing and building unique test equipment for Defense Department contracts. So if Northrop Grumman won the contract to build the new radar for the F-35, Northrop's claimed performance would have to be vertified by testing. And if sufficiently capable test equipment did not yet exist, Henry's company Metrology Instruments would be the one to design and build it. I think that actually happened, though he never said so to me in so many words.)

Thanks for taking the time to reply. The Denon specs are accurate for 2 channels according to tests done by Audioholics. Denon AVR-X3300W 7.2 Atmos/DTS:X A/V Receiver Review

 

[Platypus20]

I put boilers in a metal recycling facility, that ran a series of scrap metal grinders/chipper, that were more musical than what they played in that video

 

[Chrispy]

A very popular theme out in the wild. Find little to back it up myself in general use, perhaps at elevated levels. Depends.

 

[Chagall]

Nice video, but what dBSPL was the music playing at a given listening distance? I'm guessing around 101 dB at 4 meters.

If you listen at normal levels (90-95dB) even for "dynamic" music you won't need 500W continuous and 800W peak power. More like 60-200W.

There is also a fair point to having more power than you will ever need because of EQ and/or Dirac and letting the speakers be the weak link with respect to distortion and max SPL. Just make sure to have a reliable preamp.

 

[pogo]

As you could hear in the video, they were still able to have a normal conversation. It probably wasn't disco volume yet.

 

[Chagall]

As you could hear in the video, they were still able to have a normal conversation. It probably wasn't disco volume yet.

Yep, they did talk. But if they put that amount of power in the speakers it wasn't normal listening levels either. The preamp was at -7dB with those amps (don't know the actual specs).

I agree with the conclusion of the video: depending on the speaker's sensitivity, listening distance, desired loudness, and type of music, speakers will need less or much more power. In that sense, more power is indeed better in all situations and for future-proofing.

But OP has speakers that are 90.5 dB sensitivity and if he only needs 25W to reach 95dBSPL for all kinds of music he listens to, then a more powerful amp won't do anything. But if he wants to do some room correction or move the listening position a meter away, then maybe Denon won't be enough anymore.

 

[Mattknz]

Ok now I'm thinking maybe there is something to this
I have upgraded my subs (from a different dealer) and was able to turn my amp up to 0db which I could never do before as my old subs just couldn't handle it.
There was quite a bit of distortion at that level, from the speakers not the subs
Is it reasonable to think it shouldn't have been the speakers which are rated to 200 watts and are crossed over at 80hz so the subs are doing most of the heavy lifting.
Is there any way of determining whether it's the speakers or the amp distorting?