Any history buffs? What's your favorite era?

[Astoneroad]

You mean Stefan Zweig, right?

 

[Rednaxela]

You mean Stefan Zweig, right?

Yes!

My apologies. Corrected thanks.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

The run up.to and aftermath of the 30 years war. So much was changing, possibly faster than at any time before it.

 

[Astoneroad]

I see a lot of parallels between that era and ours.

History has always been a harbinger of the future events, since human behavior hasn't significantly evolved in the blink of a few thousand years of civilization. The fall of the Etruscans and the rise of Rome (rape of the Sabine women), the rise of Julius Caesar, Rodrigo & Cesare Borgia, Machiavelli, Henry VIII, Italy & Germany 1940's, George Orwell... "Those that don't remember the past are condemned to repeat it" - G. Santayana

 

[Sokel]

More on prehistory here,and specifically the art (cave paintings,etc) but also burials and so.
I'm always moved by the fact that people had the need to leave their mark tenths of thousands of years ago and how early their respect for the dead loved ones translated to the respectful manner of their funerals.

These caves are the most important clues of our intellectual origin for me.
Altamira and Lascaux are some of the holy of holies to mankind.

 

[Astoneroad]

The run up.to and aftermath of the 30 years war. So much was changing, possibly faster than at any time before it.

The chess board may have been rearranged but the game remained/remains the same, as it always seems to do. The more history that I discover, the more obvious it is that the individual threads of history may have different hues but the fabric through which they run merely cloak the underlying golem of the human animal. Robert Sapolsky gives remarkable support for this perspective in his work.

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[Vacceo]

Being a historian myself, the list of authors I like is quite, quite long. However, some of my faves are Samuel Noah Kramer, Carlo Ginzburg, Jaques LeGoff, Jan Assmann... As of late, I'm revisiting a lot of Ibn Khaldun.

For periods, the chances of being miserable or a slave are quite high in the past, so I'd rather stay where I am.

 

[Astoneroad]

... some of the holy of holies to mankind.

Therein lies the beginning of the madness, one human's "holy", is another's fairy tale told to scare children. As a lover of all art, other than devotional (I can't get over the intent to herd the masses and the hocus pocus of any of it) I think that I understand the "reverence" for ancient artistic expression that you intended. I think the term "holy of holies" implies that it a real thing, like speaker wires "elevate" the sound enough to hear the voice of god, when in fact "they" just want to hijack our money and our obedience. Nothing has changed, imo.

 

[Astoneroad]

Being a historian myself, the list of authors I like is quite, quite long. However, some of my faves are Samuel Noah Kramer, Carlo Ginzburg, Jaques LeGoff, Jan Assmann... As of late, I'm revisiting a lot of Ibn Khaldun.

Thanks for that list of historians, all of whom are new to me and who I will definitely poke to see if anything stirs.

 

[Astoneroad]

Being a historian myself

Are you an academic or professional historian, or a lay interested reader?

 

[Sokel]

Therein lies the beginning of the madness, one human's "holy", is another's fairy tale told to scare children. As a lover of all art, other than devotional (I can't get over the intent to herd the masses and the hocus pocus of any of it) I think that I understand the "reverence" for ancient artistic expression that you intended. I think the term "holy of holies" implies that it a real thing, like speaker wires "elevate" the sound enough to hear the voice of god, when in fact "they" just want to hijack our money and our obedience. Nothing has changed, imo.

My "reverence" for it probably lies at the same reverence for individuality (yes,ego included) and need for expression.
Agree,nothing has changed,after all we have the same hands and brains,no reason no divine it.Just admire it.

 

[Vacceo]

More on prehistory here,and specifically the art (cave paintings,etc) but also burials and so.
I'm always moved by the fact that people had the need to leave their mark tenths of thousands of years ago and how early their respect for the dead loved ones translated to the respectful manner of their funerals.

These caves are the most important clues of our intellectual origin for me.
Altamira and Lascaux are some of the holy of holies to mankind.

There have been some drastically secular interpretations of Altamira as of late. Chances are it was never a sanctuary, but a meeting point of different groups, represented by animals.

When archeologists do not understand shit, they call it "ritual purpose". It's a classic stance of our trade.

Are you an academic or professional historian, or a lay interested reader?

Ph.D. in History and Anthropology. I teach it for a living.

 

[Mikig]

I like all history. When I was in school I wasn’t a big fan… then as time went by my curiosity led me to reread, re-study history and become passionate about it.

One thing certainly helps:
Italy is a history book, it is a large museum that hosts every phase that humanity has gone through.
You live in history. You find artifacts, finds and evidence of every era from the dinosaurs to the present day.
Within a 100 kilometer radius of my house, you go from fossils of ichthyosaurs over 200 million years old to the present day, passing through every type of geological, historical, human era…
you really can’t help but be impressed by the past and be curious to understand and know…

 

[Astoneroad]

There have been some drastically secular interpretations of Altamira as of late. Chances are it was never a sanctuary, but a meeting point of different groups, represented by animals.

When archeologists do not understand shit, they call it "ritual purpose". It's a classic stance of our trade.

Ph.D. in History and Anthropology. I teach it for a living.

Interesting. What is your area of study? Do you have any publications that a non academic historian can read? Do you have an opinion on Sapolsky's outlying position?

 

[Vacceo]

I like all history. When I was in school I wasn’t a big fan… then as time went by my curiosity led me to reread, re-study history and become passionate about it.

One thing certainly helps:
Italy is a history book, it is a large museum that hosts every phase that humanity has gone through.
You live in history. You find artifacts, finds and evidence of every era from the dinosaurs to the present day.
Within a 100 kilometer radius of my house, you go from fossils of ichthyosaurs over 200 million years old to the present day, passing through every type of geological, historical, human era…
you really can’t help but be impressed by the past and be curious to understand and know…

Italian neolithic is one of the most intriguing of Southern Europe. It seems that it was possible that the technology and material culture could have arrived in a two prong way, from the Balkans and across the Mediterranean perhaps at the same time.

Convergences do not usually take place in the same region at the same time.

 

[Mikig]

Italian neolithic is one of the most intriguing of Southern Europe. It seems that it was possible that the technology and material culture could have arrived in a two prong way, from the Balkans and across the Mediterranean perhaps at the same time.

Convergences do not usually take place in the same region at the same time.

we have pile-dwelling sites in our province, Varese.

 

[Vacceo]

Interesting. What is your area of study? Do you have any publications that a non academic historian can read? Do you have an opinion on Sapolsky's outlying position?

I work on cultural history and cultural institutions. My concentration is in mythology and compared religions, but the ideas and methods of it, can be applied to elements such as political thinking, community building and configuration, leissure and play (where I typically aim most of my papers) and remembrance/commemoration.

On the issue of free will vs. determinism, I think that Baruch Spinoza nailed it with his definition of freedom as "conscience of necessity". Choice is possible when conditions for it allow such choice. This assesment operates at all levels: from the subject to complete systems. The huge issue here is actually conscioness, which in this cases translates as "knowing". Deluze and Guattari wrote a nice tongetwister that encapsulates this notion quite well: "they didn´t know that they didn´t know".

If the science of the XX century is important for an epistemological reason is that it has shown limits. Limits such as the speed of light, such as the concept of environmental load, apoptosis, thermodynamics... And of course, those limits apply to the notion of free will, even beyond conventional determination.

In summary, I do not believe in self-determination, but in hetero-determination. Where that hetero allows a margin of choice, that is the real freedom we have.

 

[Astoneroad]

I work on cultural history and cultural institutions. My concentration is in mythology and compared religions, but the ideas and methods of it, can be applied to elements such as political thinking, community building and configuration, leissure and play (where I typically aim most of my papers) and remembrance/commemoration.

On the issue of free will vs. determinism, I think that Baruch Spinoza nailed it with his definition of freedom as "conscience of necessity". Choice is possible when conditions for it allow such choice. This assesment operates at all levels: from the subject to complete systems. The huge issue here is actually conscioness, which in this cases translates as "knowing". Deluze and Guattari wrote a nice tongetwister that encapsulates this notion quite well: "they didn´t know that they didn´t know".

If the science of the XX century is important for an epistemological reason is that it has shown limits. Limits such as the speed of light, such as the concept of environmental load, apoptosis, thermodynamics... And of course, those limits apply to the notion of free will, even beyond conventional determination.

In summary, I do not believe in self-determination, but in hetero-determination. Where that hetero allows a margin of choice, that is the real freedom we have.

Spinoza and pre XX+ century philosophers didn't have access to genetics/epigenetics, thereby rendering a subjective perspective, rather than Sapolsky's objective/scientific conclusions. Until I started to read the current literature, I was firmly in the self-determination camp, much like before ASR I believed in all kinds of subjective audio myths that didn't adhere to the laws of physics and engineering. Degrasse Tyson quoted that 93% of post doctoral scientists do not believe in god isn't the surprise. The surprise is the 7% who do, "god of the gaps". From my casual observation, it seems like this is a similar ratio as to those that believe in self-determination. This surprised me, since I would have thought that all those individual smarty pants particle physicists et. al., would think that their accomplishments were the result of their own decisions and "gumption". Self-determination/free will, seems to share a dwindling number of adherents with those holding religious beliefs. I'd be interested in your opinion as a professor with a concentration in mythology and compared religions.

 

[Speedskater]

The start of World War II in the US.
And how many different things in different countries would have changed the war.

 

[Astoneroad]

...My concentration is in mythology and compared religions, but the ideas and methods of it, can be applied to elements such as political thinking, community building and configuration, leissure and play (where I typically aim most of my papers) and remembrance/commemoration.

Do you have a historian's opinion on Resa Aslan's book "Zealot" with the caveat that it's a work for popular consumption and not a peer reviewed paper?