Any history buffs? What's your favorite era?

[Willem]

Being a historian myself, the list of authors I like is quite, quite long. However, some of my faves are Samuel Noah Kramer, Carlo Ginzburg, Jaques LeGoff, Jan Assmann... As of late, I'm revisiting a lot of Ibn Khaldun.

For periods, the chances of being miserable or a slave are quite high in the past, so I'd rather stay where I am.

As another historian, yes indeed the past is fortunately a world we have lost (to slightly change some famous words from the late Peter Laslett). As it so happens, I am an economic and sometimes social historian of the Roman world, interested in long term trends in economic performance and wealth, broadly defined. My research often uses archaeological data that thanks to EU legislation are now available in huge quantities.

 

[Astoneroad]

I am an economic and sometimes social historian of the Roman world

Will you share a favorite story or two of Roman social history? It's so rich and brutal when it comes to social and familial relationships. One would expect no less from a society that began with gang rape of the Sabines and fratricide by a twin brother suckled by a she wolf... the next millennia would grow out of that compost... lol. I'll put in a personal request for a tale of Octavian or Augustus, depending upon the date. Do you have an opinion on Mary Beard as a historian? I found her book S.P.Q.R. interesting and approachable, others a bit hit and miss for me. Was my extrapolation of Epicurus to Kerouac a bridge too far? Where are you located?

 

[Willem]

I don't do literary anecdotes, but here is a representative graph from our research on human body length as a measure of health, based on 10k skeletons. When people are healthier they grow taller. It shows that in this case health/body length was negatively correlated with prosperity (highest in the period 200 BC-AD 200). Our hypothesis is that Roman prosperity involved higher levels of urbanisation and hence pressure from infectious disease (the so-called urban penalty). The big turning point is in the late second century AD deterioration of the climate. The challenge with such research is to think of meaningful archaeological proxy variables. source: W.M. Jongman, J.P.A.M Jacobs and G.M. Klein Goldewijk, Health and wealth in the Roman Empire. in: Economics and Human Biology. 34, pp 138-150. For some recorded public lectures: https://www.college-de-france.fr/en/agenda/guest-lecturer/willem-jongman

 

[Vacceo]

Sounds like someone after a hedonistic caveman's own heart. I'll have to go back and give Seneca another read. It's been decades and was when I was binging on some of his fellow Roman authors, Tacitus, Suetonius, Cicero, et. al. and with the passing of time and mushing of grey matter have lost clear lines of distinction... lol.

The point is to take the world as is, not as you think it should be. The first step in decent accademics is to describe and analize.

A huge part of pleasure enjoyment today is mediated by representation, what Debord describes in the Society of the Spectacle and Umberto Eco calls "hyperreality". Representation is what we too often interact with, instead of the represented. Audiophilia is a good example of that hyperreal condition.

Will you share a favorite story or two of Roman social history? It's so rich and brutal when it comes to social and familial relationships. One would expect no less from a society that began with gang rape of the Sabines and fratricide by a twin brother suckled by a she wolf... the next millennia would grow out of that compost... lol. I'll put in a personal request for a tale of Octavian or Augustus, depending upon the date. Do you have an opinion on Mary Beard as a historian? I found her book S.P.Q.R. interesting and approachable, others a bit hit and miss for me. Was my extrapolation of Epicurus to Kerouac a bridge too far? Where are you located?

a very interesting case to pierce social conceptions of the time is the case of how Plato was sued by his wife for not being a good husband.

I don't do literary anecdotes, but here is a representative graph from our research on human body length as a measure of health, based on 10k skeletons. When people are healthier they grow taller. It shows that in this case health/body length was negatively correlated with prosperity (highest in the period 200 BC-AD 200). Our hypothesis is that Roman prosperity involved higher levels of urbanisation and hence pressure from infectious disease (the so-called urban penalty). The big turning point is in the late second century AD deterioration of the climate. The challenge with such research is to think of meaningful archaeological proxy variables. source: W.M. Jongman, J.P.A.M Jacobs and G.M. Klein Goldewijk, Health and wealth in the Roman Empire. in: Economics and Human Biology. 34, pp 138-150. For some recorded public lectures: https://www.college-de-france.fr/en/agenda/guest-lecturer/willem-jongman

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That correlates quite well with Polibius takes on what makes a good soldier for the legion: country boys, not urbanites.

Just out of curiosity, where do you land on the question of Shakespearean authorship? I'm guessing that it's a professional requirement to be in the Stratford camp, as much as it is for a particle physicist to channel Nietzche / Zarathustra... "Could it be possible! This old saint has not heard in his forest that God is dead!" I'm probably opening a can of worms with this one... so feel free to ignore it... lol.

Considering the time, it's not surprising that Uncle Will stole the writings of other authors or even commissioned works from them to call his own.

Cervantes had a copycat named Avellaneda, and thus he wrote the second part of Don Quijote. Authorship at the time was not clear cut and all forms of shady practices did happen. These practices are well-documented among painters, and that's why it took a long time to recognize Artemisia Gentileschi as a painter herself.

 

[kickerofelves]

My undergrad degree is in history so great thread! My area of interest started as economic history, the industrial revolution, French Revolution but due to my work I gravitated towards Russian/Soviet history, early Soviet regime then Stalinism, etc. For personal interest nowadays I divert off into other areas like classical Roman history mainly the Republic and its demise, even helping run a classical history forum at one point. I've done a very deep dive into the WW2 Pacific Theater recently, reading postwar interogations of Japanese officers, after-action battle reports, etc.

Currently my interests have been driven more and more towards the period in Europe between the wars and the rise of the fascist movement.

 

[Doodski]

I've done a very deep dive into the WW2 Pacific Theater recently, reading postwar interogations of Japanese officers, after-action battle reports, etc.

Wow! That would be a lot of information to digest. I've read a bit about this too and it should be required reading.

 

[SIY]

The first step in decent accademics is to describe and analize.

I tried that, but that landed me in front of the HR department.

I really enjoy history- as a kid, I read the Durants, then got interested in particular eras and figures so read more specialized things. A lot of Bernard Lewis recently.

I think right now is the best possible time to live.

 

[RayDunzl]

I think my favorite era will be The Future.

Anything is possible.

Just look at all the surprises over the last 100 years or so..

 

[Astoneroad]

Considering the time, it's not surprising that Uncle Will stole the writings of other authors or even commissioned works from them to call his own.

Cervantes had a copycat named Avellaneda, and thus he wrote the second part of Don Quijote. Authorship at the time was not clear cut and all forms of shady practices did happen. These practices are well-documented among painters, and that's why it took a long time to recognize Artemisia Gentileschi as a painter herself.

Funny that you brought up Cervantes and D.Q. regarding the authorship question. There's an interesting connection in Venice between Cervantes and Edward de Vere, the 17th Earl of Oxford, who is my bet as the author. Roger Stritmatter does a masterful job, imho, in his dissertation, with compelling evidence that Oxford was the author. The meeting between Cervantes may or may not happened, but it fits an actual event, place and timeline as I best recall. I just want to think that it was true. If so, Oxford may have been Cervantes' model for D.Q. Have you heard that theory?

I love instances where remarkable men crossed paths and interacted, other than in war. A great example is Strathern's book "The Artist, The Philosopher and The Warrior" when in 1502 Leonardo, Machiavelli and Cesare Borgia were in daily conversation while on campaign together for about 3 months... a really fun read.

 

[kickerofelves]

I love history! My favourite periods:

- Ancient Roman and Greek history
- All of Chinese history, especially 20th Century
- Naval history in the age of sail and the age of exploration
- Middle Eastern history of the 20th Century (essential reading if you want to understand why they the region is so screwed up)

I am a huge fan of Thucydides

I reread History of the Pelopennisian war a few years back in an intersting way. I took different translations and alternated chapters or sometimes rereading another translators work.

The following is from another review I did elsewhere:

One note; apparently in the Greek Thucydides writing is pretty complex, even a Greeks historian who read it years after his death criticized its complexity. I had the Landmark, Steven Lattimore’s translation, the Oxford Classics by Martin, Barnes and Nobles and Penguin’s version by Rex Warner.

Rex Warner’s translation in the Penguin version is probably a good one for anybody who just wants to casually approach Thucydides. Warner was an author so his writing is pretty accessible. I read his book “The Aerodrome” sort of a minor classic from 1940. Oxford’s version is pretty good for a casual reader as well. Not as loose a translation as Warner’s apparently (I don’t read ancient Greek) but I liked it. The Barnes & Noble and the Landmark are both based on Crowley’s 19th century translation. The B&N translation is tweaked by the editor to make it more modern and correct some deficiencies. I remember it being quite readable.

The Landmark is stunning in it’s ‘extras’, the annotations, maps, notes, etc. The drawback, and it’s a big one, is that it’s tough to carry around and frankly the information can be overwhelming if it’s a first time read. Like taking a sip of water from a fire-hose. Then again I’ve bought every Landmark out the from Herodotus to the most recent Caesar’s Conquest of Gaul!

Steven Lattimore’s is the most ‘complex’, it has the reputation of being the closest to Thucydides own wording & thought process. If you’re into political science, history, philosophy or political economy it’ll be fine. Or you can do like I did and maybe buy two or three different translations—the Oxford, Penguin and B&N are easy to get used copies of—and alternate readings!

Wow! That would be a lot of information to digest. I've read a bit about this too and it should be required reading.

It's really an epic theater of war. The jarheads get all the glory but iirc only about 7 USMC division while the Army had around 23 divisions plus several independent regiments who fought in New Guinea, Leyte, Luzon, etc were all Army ops w/Navy support. The Battle of Manila was pure carnage on the intensity if not numbers of the Stalingrad or Nanjing urban battles. Imperial Japanese Navy in the city troops were brutal to the civilians. Rampage: MacArthur, Yamashita and the Battle of Manila by James Scott is an excellent read.

Its interesting how when you get out of the military aspects & down into the internal politics of the very dysfunctional Japanese gov't and miltary how involved Hirohito really was. The postwar version of his being a 'tool' for the militarists is pretty much bs. He was in it up to his ears. Some US officials, the Aussies, the Brits & US public opinion wanted him to be charged in the Tokyo War Crimes Trial w/Tojo and others but MacArthur & SecState Stimson convinced Truman it was useful to protect him to help pacify the population.

 

[Vacceo]

Along with Herodotus and Clio herself, they are considered the forerunners of what nowadays Ranke turned into an accademic discipline. Still, I prefeer Polibius as he goes further down the path of secular reasons for events and wider contextualization of said events.