Analog and digital: a rant

[mhardy6647]

Doesn't analog mean the same thing as... you know, the English word?

1. : something that is similar or comparable to something else either in general or in some specific detail : something that is analogous to something else. historical analogues to the current situation.

Definition of ANALOG

of, relating to, or being a mechanism or device in which information is represented by continuously variable physical quantities; of or relating to an analog computer; having both hour and minute hands… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Representing something via something else -- e.g., a sound wave as an electrical (AC) signal.
If so, 'digital' is also analog. Those 1s and 0s, in the analog(ous) form as two voltage states, "flow" in a wire just like... those "analog" waveforms.
Don't tell the boutique cable companies.
Oh.
Wait.
That ship has sailed.

 

[DLS79]

Please tell me you are parodying stair-steps.

Something like that, but not as nice!

 

[Ropeburn]

Sigh. Maybe (or rather: definitely) I didn't word everything to utter perfection. But still, do you guys really not get the general sentiment, that is: analog and digital don't really physically exist, they're mere concepts, made up by us humans, and used as we see fit and apply our technology towards a goal (here: audio recording and reproduction)?

If that is so, I'll happily delete this whole post. Because obviously I failed to get my point across and will take responsibility.

 

[Doodski]

Sigh. Maybe (or rather: definitely) I didn't word everything to utter perfection. But still, do you guys really not get the general sentiment, that is: analog and digital don't really physically exist, they're mere concepts, made up by us humans, and used as we see fit and apply our technology towards a goal (here: audio recording and reproduction)?

If that is so, I'll happily delete this whole post. Because obviously I failed to get my point across and will take responsibility.

Analogue is real and is all around you and explained by mathematics. It is not a invention.

 

[restorer-john]

(exactly two samples is beyond the Nyquist limit)

Depends on the sampling rate.

 

[antcollinet]

But still, do you guys really not get the general sentiment, that is: analog and digital don't really physically exist, they're mere concepts, made up by us humans,

Not only do I not get it, I fundamentally disagree.


Both analogue and digital "analogues" of actual physical phenomena - also physically exist in their own right in the way we have defined them. We can measure them. We can see them on a scope, or read out on a logic analyser. We can see and hear the results of them. We can write mathematical equations that represent them - and so on and so on.

Hell we can even see the rainbow diffraction caused by the encoded digits on the silvery layer of a CD.

It may be that your (incorrect) definitions of analogue and digital don't exist because... well.. they are incorrect.

 

[Doodski]

I can't remember the name of the phenomena but some people think everything is not reality and is a merely a dream and reality is something different as if we are acting out our lives. Is this something like that?

 

[Ropeburn]

You know the digital stair steps thing is fiction don't you?

That was part of my whole point. Both "analog" and "digital" are fiction in the end! The practical end result says: "digital" is more "analogous" than "analog", because the digital resolution in commonly available audio gear has had a higher resolution and therefore is closer to the original than any "analog" format than mankind has ever achieved. For many years now.

I didn't word things perfectly. Still, I must wonder where this myriad of obvious (from my view) misunderstanding comes from. I'm nothing special, just a dude who likes to think about principles. I can't be the only one.

 

[DVDdoug]

Milk is analog. Eggs are digital.

 

[bmc0]

Depends on the sampling rate.

No... if there are exactly two samples per cycle, the frequency is exactly half the sampling rate (i.e. outside the allowed band).

 

[Timcognito]

OMG my head hurts. Unwatching to make it stop. Back to call for humor.

 

[Doodski]

Milk is analog. Eggs are digital.

Pinball is analogue and Tetris is digital.

 

[pablolie]

Having trouble with this. How I see it. Analog mechanical sound waves are transduced into electrical signals by mircophones, stored, amplified and transduced into analog mechanical sound waves by speakers.

There's something called Shannon Nyquist. The resulting analog signal will be identical to the original analog signal. Learn Fourier transformations and you can easily establish it for yourself. Zero doubt. Basic as 1+1=2.

Also much easier to master and preserve with tools these days. With zero loss. Every analog transfer will cost you signal integrity.
And digital doesn't degrade blabla.

 

[bmc0]

"digital" is more "analogous" than "analog", because the digital resolution in commonly available audio gear has had a higher resolution and therefore is closer to the original than any "analog" format than mankind has ever achieved.

The fundamental mathematical distinction between "analog" and "digital" is not the achievable amplitude resolution (noise floor). It's that analog signals are continuous time, whereas digital signals are discrete time.

 

[restorer-john]

No... if there are exactly two samples per cycle, the frequency is exactly half the sampling rate (i.e. outside the allowed band).

Sample at 40kHz and you get 2 samples per cycle at 20kHz.

Sample at 48kHz and you get 2.4 samples at 20kHz

Sample at 192kHz and you get 9.6 samples at 20kHz.

It's not that hard.

 

[Robin L]

The fundamental mathematical distinction between "analog" and "digital" is not the achievable amplitude resolution (noise floor). It's that analog signals are continuous time, whereas digital signals are discrete time.

Not really. It's kinda like π. While one cannot get more smooth and continuous than π, π is not perfectly realizable in the physical realm. The number of digits of π that have already been computed exceeds the number of subatomic particles in the known universe. What the OP is attempting to say is true - the reason why LPs have a maximum of 12 bits of signal depth has a lot to due to the physical crudity of the media in which analog signals are recorded or stamped into grooves. So called "analog" audio signals usually are less continuous than digital signals. By the time a digital signal gets to 24 bits the point becomes moot, there is no equipment or environment in which 24 bits can be fully realized. By the time one gets to 32 bits it becomes absurd. There is no situation where a 194 SNR is audible or practical.

 

[bmc0]

Sample at 40kHz...

Yes, but the part of my post that you quoted previously simply says that Fs/2 is out of band... which is true regardless of the sampling rate.

 

[bmc0]

Not really.

You did not read my post correctly.

So called "analog" audio signals usually are less continuous than digital signals.

Not in time, which is the point I was making.

 

[Ropeburn]

How the hell do I contact moderators on this forum? I request a deletion of this whole thread. It derailed completely, which was never my intention.

 

[SIY]

Shadows on the cave wall.