A thread about AMD's upcoming Ryzen 7000 series.
Update:
It appears bifurcation is most likely not on a thing with these new X670E motherboards. Boards that feature Dual CPU-linked "x16 slots" can only be set to x8/x8 or forced x8/x4 (Certain Motherboards that feature a 3rd PCIe 5.0 M.2 slot). Motherboards that include a "Dual M.2 adapter" probably use chip-based bifurcation rather then the modern Motherboard & CPU based bifurcation, which is a major blow for the average consumer. When a board & CPU supports x4/x4 or even x4/x4/x4/x4 bifurcation, the storage options is better for the consumer and the adapters can be made dirt cheap ($5 [Single M.2] to $50 [Quad M.2] an adapter). Non-bifurcation chip-based add-on cards due exist but there very costly (Hundreds of dollars). To ease this news, I will make a simple chart comparing boards. MSI's GEN-5 Xpander card appears to be chip-based due to the various MSI motherboard manual's not mentioning bifurcation.
If you were wondering if there is a difference between an M.2 installed on a CPU-linked slot or a Chipset-linked slot, short answer yes. Long answer: https://www.thefpsreview.com/2021/09/28/primary-m-2-socket-vs-secondary-m-2-socket-which-is-faster/
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CPU Lanes Debate. 20? 24? or 28?
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At first we heard the number was 28 (from rumors), now its 24 (officially from AMD). Older Intel and AMD CPU's used 16 lanes (1 x16 slot or 2 x8 slots). Later we got Intel and AMD CPUs used 20 lanes (1 x16 slot or 2 x8 slots, +x4 slot [Usually M.2 slot]). Now the current AMD holds 24 lanes, which is amazing (You already know the possible configs). Judging by motherboard photos, 6-Full-Speed CPU-linked PCIe 5.0 NVMe drives should be possible. Sadly chipset slots will use PCIe 4.0 speeds but in the distant future, we will get PCIe 5.0 speeds.
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X670E Tier List
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Some Info:
Boards that didn't make it to the chart due to there very odd configuration of slots (Will not mention x1 slots) (M.2 slot is x4 unless noted):
Asrock X670E PG Lightning:
The internet is debating about the difference's between the MSI MEG X670E ACE and Carbon Wifi. The main difference is slots.
In terms of rare performance with M.2 slots, both boards feature the same amount. In terms of future-proofing, the ACE wins. The ACE features a 10-gigabit controller and a physical PCIe 5.0 x4 CPU-linked (than the Carbon's PCIe 5.0 x4 M.2 slot). Why is a physical PCIe 5.0 slot is better than a PCIe 5.0 M.2 slot?, future M.2 sizes. Instead of being stuck with 2x PCIe 5.0 2280-max slots, your giving up 1 PCIe 5.0 M.2 slot for a PCIe 5.0 x4 PCIe slot, which could be slotted with a future 22110 & 25110 PCIe 5.0 x4 add-on cards. In terms of 10-gigabit LAN, the ACE features a built-in while with the Carbon, you have to buy a 10-gigabit LAN add-on card which wastes your valuable PCIe 4.0 x4 chipset-linked slot. You could hope and wait for a 10-gigabit USB adapter (to save that PCIe slot) but it's gonna be a while before that happens. If you don't care about wasting that slot, then you could save some money.
The one advantage the carbon has is future USB cards. If you want a USB4 add-on card (40 gigabit/sec), wasting the Carbon's PCIe 4.0 x4 Chipset-linked slot is ironically better then wasting the PCIe 5.0 CPU-linked slot. If you care about USB4, I would wait half a year and see if there's any X670E boards that feature built-in ones.
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USB4 & TB4 AICs
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Info on USB4 speeds through TB4 ports on MBs/AICs is almost non-existent, where's a small list of what I can find (FTW: USB 4 can do TB4 speeds):
If you want to hear my thoughts:
I'm mainly an Intel guy and a computer geek. My job is about computers and my main interest is computers, so I think about computers a-lot. Anyways, I wanted to build a system not because its broken because I want more of a modern future-proof computer. I'm the top of person that cares more about the motherboard then the video-card.
I initially wanted to go with an Intel Z690 motherboard. PCIe 4.0 x8 Equivalent Chipset bandwidth (DMI 4.0), Dual CPU-linked PCIe 5.0 "x16" slots (x16/x0 or x8/x8 mode), USB4/TB4 ports, 1 CPU-linked PCIe 4.0 M.2 slot, etc. There's one problem, no bifurcation. Bifurcation is important to me because without it, you can only run 1 PCIe 5.0 NVMe SSD on that divided x8 slot and if it had it, you can run 2 PCIe 5.0 NVMe SSDs on that same slot. If Intel allowed Z690 to have that, I wouldn't mind buying one but having no bifurcation just bugs me. I think Intel Z590 does bifurcation but the chipset bandwidth is PCIe 3.0 x4 Equivalent, dual slots are PCIe 4.0 and the CPUs are just bad value (A 12th gen i5 shouldn't match a 10th gen i9).
AMD's current X570 (With a 5000 series CPU) on the other hand. PCIe 4.0 x4 Equivalent Chipset bandwidth, Dual CPU-linked PCIe 4.0 "x16" slots (x16/x0, x8/x8 and x8/x4/x4), USB4/TB4 ports, 1 CPU-linked PCIe 4.0 slot, etc. With X570, we do get bifurcation but the chipset's bandwidth is half of Intel's Z690 and the 2 "x16" slots are PCIe 4.0. Since we have bifurcation, in theory, a DirectStorage API game could load faster on a X570 Bifurcation RAID 0 PCIe 4.0 NVMe setup, then a Z690 Chipset-based RAID 0 PCie 4.0 NVMe setup but that theory falls apart because we could use a PCIe 5.0 SSD on the Z690 divided x8 slot that would match that X570 bifurcation setup.
What I do think of X670E?, its best of both worlds potentially. X670E has dual PCIe 5.0 "x16" slots that mostly will support bifurcation and the 1 CPU-linked M.2 slot will be most likely PCIe 5.0 also. In terms of chipset bandwidth theory, it could PCIe 4.0 x8 or even PCIe 4.0 x16 Equivalent. I think Z790 will remain mostly the same like the Z690, just like the jump from Z170 to Z270.
Update:
It appears bifurcation is most likely not on a thing with these new X670E motherboards. Boards that feature Dual CPU-linked "x16 slots" can only be set to x8/x8 or forced x8/x4 (Certain Motherboards that feature a 3rd PCIe 5.0 M.2 slot). Motherboards that include a "Dual M.2 adapter" probably use chip-based bifurcation rather then the modern Motherboard & CPU based bifurcation, which is a major blow for the average consumer. When a board & CPU supports x4/x4 or even x4/x4/x4/x4 bifurcation, the storage options is better for the consumer and the adapters can be made dirt cheap ($5 [Single M.2] to $50 [Quad M.2] an adapter). Non-bifurcation chip-based add-on cards due exist but there very costly (Hundreds of dollars). To ease this news, I will make a simple chart comparing boards. MSI's GEN-5 Xpander card appears to be chip-based due to the various MSI motherboard manual's not mentioning bifurcation.
If you were wondering if there is a difference between an M.2 installed on a CPU-linked slot or a Chipset-linked slot, short answer yes. Long answer: https://www.thefpsreview.com/2021/09/28/primary-m-2-socket-vs-secondary-m-2-socket-which-is-faster/
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CPU Lanes Debate. 20? 24? or 28?
---------------------------------------------------------
At first we heard the number was 28 (from rumors), now its 24 (officially from AMD). Older Intel and AMD CPU's used 16 lanes (1 x16 slot or 2 x8 slots). Later we got Intel and AMD CPUs used 20 lanes (1 x16 slot or 2 x8 slots, +x4 slot [Usually M.2 slot]). Now the current AMD holds 24 lanes, which is amazing (You already know the possible configs). Judging by motherboard photos, 6-Full-Speed CPU-linked PCIe 5.0 NVMe drives should be possible. Sadly chipset slots will use PCIe 4.0 speeds but in the distant future, we will get PCIe 5.0 speeds.
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X670E Tier List
============================================================
Some Info:
- All 7000-series CPU's have 24 lanes (Ex: x16 Video Card + Dual PCIe 5.0 x4 M.2 slots).
- All X670E boards should have at least 2 CPU-linked PCIe 5.0 x4 M.2 slots.
- PCIe 4.0 x4 slots usually share bandwidth the with Chipset PCIe 4.0 M.2s. Most of the time, you can populate all slots and the default speed remains the but of course, if you use all the devices at the same time, the bandwidth is divided. Having the slots remain the default speed is good because your not gonna use all devices at the same time and you can use let's say your PCIe 4.0 SSD at x4 speed while the other slots are populated not being used.
- Forced "x2" slots are usually for idiot-proofing. A good example is when you copy a file from a PCIe 4.0 x4 slot device to PCIe 4.0 M.2 slot that share the same bandwidth, both devices will divide because each devices is forced at x2. The problem with these idiot-proof measures is that if you want to transfer data from your PCIe 4.0 x4 device or PCIe 4.0 M.2 slot to a non-shared bandwidth device, the device can do x4 but is limited to x2 just because its "shared" with another device that isn't being used. Forced x2 slots are not needed because the slots naturally divide the speed without adjusting slot bandwidth. I would recommend staying away from motherboards that does forced x2 slots.
- Before you buy a motherboard, make sure your SSDs will fit in those M.2 slots and vice versa.
- Currently high-latency DDR5 can match or be below low-latency DDR4 (In terms of performance).
- PCIe 5.0 SSDs will mostly start at 10,000 megabytes/sec. It's going be a while before we get ~14,000-15,000 megabytes/sec drives.
- If you wanting USB4-40 support on your favorite MB, Future USB4 AICs will be a thing (Just like what happened with USB3.2 Gen 2x2) and will take up a PCIe 3.0 x4 slot. Although USB4 80-gigabit is a thing, Also Future USB4-80 AICs would be either PCIe 3.0 x8 or PCIe 4.0 x4.
- If you were wanting to use a GPU, that'll cost you 1 PCIe 5.0 M.2 slot (Assuming if your using a Single M.2 card in that top slot).
[X670E only] | PCIe 5.0 x16 slots | Total PCIe 5.0 "M.2" slots possible (No Dual M.2 Cards, only Single M.2 card) | PCIe 4.0 M.2 slots | PCIe 4.0 x4 capable slots | Board & CPU Bifurcation | USB4/TB4 Support | MSRP (USD) | *Notes |
Asrock X670E Taichi | 2 (x16/0), (x8/x8) | 3 | 3 (Chipset) | 0 | None | Yes/None | $500 | |
Asrock X670E Taichi Carrara | 2 (x16/0), (x8/x8) | 3 | 3 (Chipset) | 0 | None | Yes/None | $530 | |
Asus X670E Extreme | 2 (x16/0), (x8/x8), (x8/x4) | 5 | 1 (Chipset) | 1 | Kind of? | Yes/None | $1000 | Last 5.0 "x16" slot will run in x4 mode if a certain PCIe 5.0 M.2 slot is used otherwise the last slot can run in x8 mode. |
Asus X670E Hero | 2 (x16/0), (x8/x8) | 5 | 2 (Chipset) | 0 | None | Yes/None | $700 | |
Asus X670E Gene | 1 (x16) | 2 | 1 (Chipset) | 0 | None | Yes/None | $600 | MATX |
Asus ProArt X670E | 2 (x16), (x8/x8) | 4 | 2 (Chipset) | 0 | None | Yes/None | $500 | PCIe 4.0 "x16" slot is shared with a certain PCIe 4.0 M.2 slot. If both slots are filled, they both run x2. If the "x16 slot" is not used, the M.2 will run at x4 speed. "x16 slot" will always run at x2. |
Asus X670E-E | 2 (x16/0), (x8, x4) | 4 | 1 (Chipset) | 1 | None | None/Via AIC | $470 | Last 5.0 "x16" slot cannot run in x8 mode at all, only x4 max regardless if an certain PCIe 5.0 M.2 slot is used. |
Asus X670-I | 1 (x16) | 2 | 1 (Chipset) | 0 | None | Yes/None | $470 | MITX |
Asus X670-F | 1 (x16) | 3 | 2 (Chipset) | 1 | None | None/Via AIC | $450 | |
Asus X670-A | 1 (x16) | 3 | 2 (Chipset) | 1 | None | None/Via AIC | $420 | |
Asus Prime X670E-Pro Wi-Fi | 1 (x16) | 2 | 1 (Chipset), 1 (CPU) | 2 | None | None/VIA AIC | $350 | Motherboard has 1 extra M.2 that is PCIe 3.0 (Chipset). |
Asus TUF Gaming X670E-PLUS (Wi-Fi & Non-Wi-Fi) | 1 (x16) | 2 | 1 (Chipset), 1 (CPU) | 2 | None | None/VIA AIC | $330 (Wi-Fi) | Motherboard has 1 extra M.2 that is PCIe 3.0 (Chipset). |
Biostar X670E | 2 (?) | 4 | 2 (Chipset?) | 1? | ? | None/None | Unknown (USA site has MB listed) | |
Gigabyte X670E Aorus Extreme | 1 (x16), (x8) | 5 | 0 | 1 | None | None/Via AIC | $700 | Motherboard has 1 extra PCIe 3.0 "x16" slot (Chipset) that runs at x2. PCIe 5.0 x16 slot will go x8 mode when certain PCIe 5.0 M.2 slots are used. |
Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master | 1 (x16) | 3 | 2 (Chipset) | 1 | None | None/None | $500 | Motherboard has 1 extra PCIe 3.0 "x16" slot (Chipset) that runs at x2 and shares bandwidth with SATA 4&5. SATA 4&5 become un-usable when that "x16" slot is used. |
MSI X670E GODLIKE | 3 (x16), (x16/x0/x4), (x8/x8/x4) | 4 | 3 (Chipset) | 0 | None | None/None | $1,300 | 6 PCIe 5.0 M.2 slots is (In theory) possible with 2 MSI's exclusive Dual-M.2 AIC. The AIC's appear to use Chip-based bifurcation. |
MSI MEG X670E ACE | 3 (x16), (x16/x0/x4), (x8/x8/x4) | 4 | 3 (Chipset) | 0 | None | None/None | $700 | 6 PCIe 5.0 M.2 slots is (In theory) possible with 2 MSI's exclusive Dual-M.2 AIC. The AIC's appear to use Chip-based bifurcation. Even if the top slot doesn't support the AIC, you can install a standard adapter and get 5 PCIe M.2 slots. |
MSI MEG | 2 (x16/x0), (x8/x8) | 4 | 2 (Chipset) | 1 | None | None/None | $480 | 6 PCIe 5.0 M.2 slots is (In theory) possible with 2 MSI's exclusive Dual-M.2 AIC. The AIC's appear to use Chip-based bifurcation. Even if the top slot doesn't support the AIC, you can install a standard adapter and get 5 PCIe M.2 slots. |
Boards that didn't make it to the chart due to there very odd configuration of slots (Will not mention x1 slots) (M.2 slot is x4 unless noted):
Asrock X670E PG Lightning:
- CPU: 1 PCIe 5.0 x16 slot, 1 PCIe 5.0 M.2 slot, and 1 PCIe 4.0 "x16" x4 slot
- Chipset: 1 PCIe 3.0 M.2 slot, 1 PCIe 4.0 M.2 slot (x2 speed, wtf), 1 PCIe 4.0 M.2 slot.
- Bifurcation: None
- MSRP: $260
- CPU: 1 PCIe 5.0 x16 slot, 1 PCIe 5.0 M.2 slot and 1 PCIe 4.0 M.2 slot.
- Chipset: 2 PCIe 4.0 M.2 slot and 1 PCIe 3.0 M.2 slot (x2 speed, wtf)
- Bifurcation: None
- MSRP: $280
The internet is debating about the difference's between the MSI MEG X670E ACE and Carbon Wifi. The main difference is slots.
MSI MEG X670E ACE ($700 USD) | MSI MPG X670E Carbon Wifi ($480) | |
Last "x16" slot | PCIe 5.0 x4 (From CPU) | PCIe 4.0 x4 (From chipset) |
M.2 PCIe 5.0 Slot's (From CPU) | 1 (up to 2280) | 2 (up to 2280) |
M.2 PCIe 4.0 Slot's (From Chipset) | 3 (up to 1x 22110 and 2x 2280) | 2 (up to 1x 22110 and 1x 2280) |
LAN | Marvell® AQC113-B1-C 10Gbps | Realtek® RTL8125BG 2.5Gbps |
Total USB 2.0 Ports | 4 (4 Front Type A) | 6 (2 Rear Type A, 4 Front Type A) |
Total USB 3.2 Gen1 ports [5 gigabit/sec] | 4 (4 Front Type A) | 4 (4 Front Type A) |
Total USB 3.2 Gen2 ports [10 gigabit/sec] | 10 (8 Rear Type A, 1 Front Type C, 1 Rear Type C) | 8 (6 Rear Type A, 1 Front Type C, 1 Rear Type C) |
Total USB 3.2 Gen2x2 ports [20 gigabit/sec] | 3 (2 Rear Type C, 1 Front Type C) | 1 (1 Rear Type C) |
Pump Fan Headers | 2 | 1 |
In terms of rare performance with M.2 slots, both boards feature the same amount. In terms of future-proofing, the ACE wins. The ACE features a 10-gigabit controller and a physical PCIe 5.0 x4 CPU-linked (than the Carbon's PCIe 5.0 x4 M.2 slot). Why is a physical PCIe 5.0 slot is better than a PCIe 5.0 M.2 slot?, future M.2 sizes. Instead of being stuck with 2x PCIe 5.0 2280-max slots, your giving up 1 PCIe 5.0 M.2 slot for a PCIe 5.0 x4 PCIe slot, which could be slotted with a future 22110 & 25110 PCIe 5.0 x4 add-on cards. In terms of 10-gigabit LAN, the ACE features a built-in while with the Carbon, you have to buy a 10-gigabit LAN add-on card which wastes your valuable PCIe 4.0 x4 chipset-linked slot. You could hope and wait for a 10-gigabit USB adapter (to save that PCIe slot) but it's gonna be a while before that happens. If you don't care about wasting that slot, then you could save some money.
The one advantage the carbon has is future USB cards. If you want a USB4 add-on card (40 gigabit/sec), wasting the Carbon's PCIe 4.0 x4 Chipset-linked slot is ironically better then wasting the PCIe 5.0 CPU-linked slot. If you care about USB4, I would wait half a year and see if there's any X670E boards that feature built-in ones.
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USB4 & TB4 AICs
============================================================
Info on USB4 speeds through TB4 ports on MBs/AICs is almost non-existent, where's a small list of what I can find (FTW: USB 4 can do TB4 speeds):
- ASRock Thunderbolt 4 AIC:
- ASUS ThunderBoltEX 4 Card:
- MSI Thunderbolt 4 PCIe Expansion Card:
- Gigabyte GC-MAPLE RIDGE (USB 3.2 Gen 2 is 10 gigabit/sec):
If you want to hear my thoughts:
I'm mainly an Intel guy and a computer geek. My job is about computers and my main interest is computers, so I think about computers a-lot. Anyways, I wanted to build a system not because its broken because I want more of a modern future-proof computer. I'm the top of person that cares more about the motherboard then the video-card.
I initially wanted to go with an Intel Z690 motherboard. PCIe 4.0 x8 Equivalent Chipset bandwidth (DMI 4.0), Dual CPU-linked PCIe 5.0 "x16" slots (x16/x0 or x8/x8 mode), USB4/TB4 ports, 1 CPU-linked PCIe 4.0 M.2 slot, etc. There's one problem, no bifurcation. Bifurcation is important to me because without it, you can only run 1 PCIe 5.0 NVMe SSD on that divided x8 slot and if it had it, you can run 2 PCIe 5.0 NVMe SSDs on that same slot. If Intel allowed Z690 to have that, I wouldn't mind buying one but having no bifurcation just bugs me. I think Intel Z590 does bifurcation but the chipset bandwidth is PCIe 3.0 x4 Equivalent, dual slots are PCIe 4.0 and the CPUs are just bad value (A 12th gen i5 shouldn't match a 10th gen i9).
AMD's current X570 (With a 5000 series CPU) on the other hand. PCIe 4.0 x4 Equivalent Chipset bandwidth, Dual CPU-linked PCIe 4.0 "x16" slots (x16/x0, x8/x8 and x8/x4/x4), USB4/TB4 ports, 1 CPU-linked PCIe 4.0 slot, etc. With X570, we do get bifurcation but the chipset's bandwidth is half of Intel's Z690 and the 2 "x16" slots are PCIe 4.0. Since we have bifurcation, in theory, a DirectStorage API game could load faster on a X570 Bifurcation RAID 0 PCIe 4.0 NVMe setup, then a Z690 Chipset-based RAID 0 PCie 4.0 NVMe setup but that theory falls apart because we could use a PCIe 5.0 SSD on the Z690 divided x8 slot that would match that X570 bifurcation setup.
What I do think of X670E?, its best of both worlds potentially. X670E has dual PCIe 5.0 "x16" slots that mostly will support bifurcation and the 1 CPU-linked M.2 slot will be most likely PCIe 5.0 also. In terms of chipset bandwidth theory, it could PCIe 4.0 x8 or even PCIe 4.0 x16 Equivalent. I think Z790 will remain mostly the same like the Z690, just like the jump from Z170 to Z270.
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