Am I Cursed?

[HonorableExpense]

I have bought way too many DACs for use with my Macs. I think the first one I bought was an Audio Engine D1. It worked fine, mostly. It would drop out when operating at anything higher than CD bit rates. It was demoted to be a dedicated CD DAC in my stereo. Then I bought a Topping D10 which made noise fine, but would stop working if the system went to sleep. I disabled system sleep and it worked fine for a while, but recently started dropping out frequently. I've tried connecting it via a Thunderbolt dock and Apple's USB multiport dongle. Topping support has not responded to my desperate pleas. Everyone said that the Apple USB-C dongle was good enough and for $9 I figured, why not give it a shot? Well, it's currently driving me crazy because it generates all these short static noises when the system has been quiet for a while, like something is turning on or off. (Yes I bought it direct from Apple)

DACs seem to be getting very good lately, in the audio realm at least, but which are the most stable ones? Who has the best usb? Maybe I just need to buy one that actually has support. Thanks for reading my rant.

 

[Pe8er]

I can vouch for RME ADI-2 FS. Thing is indestructible, never misbehaved on me and is a massive joy to use, especially with the recently released Remote app.

 

[HonorableExpense]

I can vouch for RME ADI-2 FS. Thing is indestructible, never misbehaved on me and is a massive joy to use, especially with the recently released Remote app.

That does cost just a teensy bit more than the ones that I've purchased. Maybe that's the take home lesson here? Just buy something nice the first time?

 

[DVDdoug]

It's almost always "something else" interrupting the audio. Your operating system is always multitasking, even when you're only running one application. There is a buffer (like a storage tank or long-pipe). The playback buffer gets filled/refilled in a quick burst when the OS gets-around to it and the audio flows-out smoothly. If it doesn't get refilled in time, you get buffer underflow and a glitch or dropout in the audio.

Whatever is interrupting the audio doesn't have to be using lots of CPU cycles... It just has to hog the system for a few milliseconds too long and you get a glitch.

 

[HonorableExpense]

It's almost always "something else" interrupting the audio. Your operating system is always multitasking, even when you're only running one application. There is a buffer (like a storage tank or long-pipe). The playback buffer gets filled/refilled in a quick burst when the OS gets-around to it and the audio flows-out smoothly. If it doesn't get refilled in time, you get buffer underflow and a glitch or dropout in the audio.

Whatever is interrupting the audio doesn't have to be using lots of CPU cycles... It just has to hog the system for a few milliseconds too long and you get a glitch.

The primary function of these things is to play audio from the computer. I find it hard to believe that everyone has problems with these products (though I was kind of wondering, hence the post).

Given that my apple usb dongle is failing at not making audio I don't know that buffer problems are necessarily to blame. That's why I was thinking a curse.

 

[Zensō]

I have bought way too many DACs for use with my Macs. I think the first one I bought was an Audio Engine D1. It worked fine, mostly. It would drop out when operating at anything higher than CD bit rates. It was demoted to be a dedicated CD DAC in my stereo. Then I bought a Topping D10 which made noise fine, but would stop working if the system went to sleep. I disabled system sleep and it worked fine for a while, but recently started dropping out frequently. I've tried connecting it via a Thunderbolt dock and Apple's USB multiport dongle. Topping support has not responded to my desperate pleas. Everyone said that the Apple USB-C dongle was good enough and for $9 I figured, why not give it a shot? Well, it's currently driving me crazy because it generates all these short static noises when the system has been quiet for a while, like something is turning on or off. (Yes I bought it direct from Apple)

DACs seem to be getting very good lately, in the audio realm at least, but which are the most stable ones? Who has the best usb? Maybe I just need to buy one that actually has support. Thanks for reading my rant.

Are you running an M1 chip? If so, have a look here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...utters-with-usb-dacs-on-macbook-m1-pro.42001/

 

[HonorableExpense]

Are you running an M1 chip? If so, have a look here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...utters-with-usb-dacs-on-macbook-m1-pro.42001/

That's an interesting thread. I'm digging into it now. For a few more data points, yes, I am on a M1 Pro MacBook Pro, but I don't experience any issues with the built in DAC or with the built in DAC on my thunderbolt dock. (I don't use the built in DAC because I really want to just unplug one thing every time I pick it up and I use the dock DAC only for my headset for video chats.)
I also have a Mac Studio that I'm using with a Topping D10S without incident so far (knock on wood).

 

[Zensō]

That's an interesting thread. I'm digging into it now. For a few more data points, yes, I am on a M1 Pro MacBook Pro, but I don't experience any issues with the built in DAC or with the built in DAC on my thunderbolt dock. (I don't use the built in DAC because I really want to just unplug one thing every time I pick it up and I use the dock DAC only for my headset for video chats.)
I also have a Mac Studio that I'm using with a Topping D10S without incident so far (knock on wood).

The issue discussed in that thread is with external USB DACs. It’s an issue with the USB ports and how they’re prioritized when memory pressure reaches relatively high levels. This has been tested with a wide variety of UAC1 and UAC2 DACs. The only reliable fix is an upgrade to MacOS Sonoma. I’m currently running Sonoma Public Beta 4 which has fully eliminated the stutters, dropouts, etc.

This may or may not be what’s causing your issues…

 

[HonorableExpense]

The issue discussed in that thread is with external USB DACs. It’s an issue with the USB ports and how they’re prioritized when memory pressure reaches relatively high levels. This has been tested with a wide variety of UAC1 and UAC2 DACs. The only reliable fix is an upgrade to MacOS Sonoma. I’m currently running Sonoma Public Beta 4 which has fully eliminated the stutters, dropouts, etc.

This may or may not be what’s causing your issues…

Awesome, I guess I'll cross my fingers and wait until the fall!

 

[Ricardus]

YES

 

[HonorableExpense]

YES

Any suggestions? Burn some AWS SageMaker?

 

[Ricardus]

Any suggestions? Burn some AWS SageMaker?

I wish I had a good suggestion.

 

[tmtomh]

The M1 Macs are fantastic - but they’ve had USB audio issues, and AirPlay audio issues, since they came out. I believe software updates have addressed or at least improved the AirPlay situation, and it’s good to hear that the next OS seems to have solved the USB issues. Given how many DACs you’re having similar issues with, I’d suggest waiting a few weeks to see if Sonoma fixes things. Why buy a new DAC if a free OS upgrade will solve the problem?

 

[ommadusk]

I use a very modern PC and an external Topping DAC and it plays music almost seamlessly. It sounds like your MAC is struggling rather than the DAC.

 

[Snoopy]

The M1 Macs are fantastic - but they’ve has USB audio issues, and AirPlay audio issues, since they came out. I believe software updates have addressed or at least improved the AirPlay situation, and it’s good to hear that the next OS seems to have solved the USB issues. Given how many DACs you’re having similar issues with, I’d suggest waiting a few weeks to see if Sonoma fixes things. Why buy a new DAC if a free OS upgrade will solve the problem?

Airplay has been flawless with my M1 MacBook Air/m2 iPad pro to apple TV 4k since I updated to Mac Sonoma and ipadOS 17.00 beta. I also use airplay to cast the audio to my cxn V2 or a raspberry Pi 4.

Even works with VPN on (hbo for example).

Sonoma fixed all usb issues as well.

 

[tmtomh]

Airplay has been flawless with my M1 MacBook Air/m2 iPad pro to apple TV 4k since I updated to Mac Sonoma and ipadOS 17.00 beta. I also use airplay to cast the audio to my cxn V2 or a raspberry Pi 4.

Even works with VPN on (hbo for example).

Sonoma fixed all usb issues as well.

Thanks! Currently my music server is a 2012 Intel Mac mini (with SSD replacing the original mechanical drive). With M3 on the horizon, I've been thinking about getting a used M1 mini or so to replace the 2012 Intel machine (if I can find an affordable used unit with 1TB of storage). Reports about M1 USB audio hassles have been a concern, so I'm very glad to see confirmation that Sonoma appears to have solved all that.

 

[Snoopy]

Thanks! Currently my music server is a 2012 Intel Mac mini (with SSD replacing the original mechanical drive). With M3 on the horizon, I've been thinking about getting a used M1 mini or so to replace the 2012 Intel machine (if I can find an affordable used unit with 1TB of storage). Reports about M1 USB audio hassles have been a concern, so I'm very glad to see confirmation that Sonoma appears to have solved all that.

External thunderbolt 4 drives are not that expensive. I have a enclosure with a 2 tb Nvme drive. It's my music storage for roon.

And the m1 is basically on 24/7

 

[tmtomh]

External thunderbolt 4 drives are not that expensive. I have a enclosure with a 2 tb Nvme drive. It's my music storage for roon.

And the m1 is basically on 24/7

Thanks! I love how Thunderbolt and SSDs basically make the internal vs external drive performance issue irrelevant for all but very demanding tasks. Honestly my main preference here is aesthetic, as I'm looking directly at the mini when I listen to music and I like to have it looking the least cluttered possible. But yes, if I have to pay a significant premium for 1TB internal on the used market when the time comes, I'll just get an external.

 

[HonorableExpense]

The issue discussed in that thread is with external USB DACs. It’s an issue with the USB ports and how they’re prioritized when memory pressure reaches relatively high levels. This has been tested with a wide variety of UAC1 and UAC2 DACs. The only reliable fix is an upgrade to MacOS Sonoma. I’m currently running Sonoma Public Beta 4 which has fully eliminated the stutters, dropouts, etc.

This may or may not be what’s causing your issues…

I thought it was odd that I don't seem to experience this issue on my Mac Studio so I upped the ram pressure and played some DSD128 and what do you know, problems there too.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

It comes as a big surprise to discover Macs are not flawless. There are a surprising number of threads with people assuming their audio hardware is flawed, when Apple is the culprit.