Alan Shaw (Harbeth) interview

[tuga]

Engineering or sales pitch?

Harbeth is doing brilliantly sales-wise according to Shaw...

 

[richard12511]

It seems as though he really prioritizes getting the human voice to sound "correct".

 

[thewas]

Harbeth is doing brilliantly sales-wise according to Shaw...

Is this now an argument for quality?

 

[tuga]

Is this now an argument for quality?

Is it? Why do you say that?

It is an argument for preference.

 

[thewas]

It is an argument for preference.

In the same "highend" world of old guys with limited hearing that "adore" tube amps, old 78 RPM records, single driver Alnico loudspeakers and non-oversampling DACs.
In German language there is a saying: "Eat sh..., millions of flies cannot be wrong."
By the way if according to that "logic" here are the most preferred loudspeakers in the world:
https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers...tronics/172563/ref=zg_bs_unv_e_3_3236451011_1
Time to get a "OontZ Angle 3" which probably is currently "preferred" by more buyers than all our Hifi stuff together.

Harbeth is doing brilliantly sales-wise according to Shaw...

And of course if he says so without any numbers, it must be the most sold loudspeaker in the world and enough to make a topic in ASR about it.
Time to make a new topic where someone says that his kids are the most good looking and genius ones.

 

[tuga]

In the same "highend" world of old guys with limited hearing that "adore" tube amps, single drivers and non-oversampling DACs.
In German language there is a saying: "Eat sh..., millions of flies cannot be wrong."
By the way if according to that "logic" here are the most preferred loudspeakers in the world:
https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers...tronics/172563/ref=zg_bs_unv_e_3_3236451011_1
Time to get a "OontZ Angle 3" which probably is currently "preferred" by more buyers than all Hifi stuff together.


And of course he says so without any numbers, it must be the most sold loudspeaker in the world and enough to make a topic in ASR about it.
Time to make a new topic where someone says that his kids are the most good looking and genious ones.

I don't understand this sudden animosity towards Harbeth or the aggressive tone in general...

I am not a Harbeth fanboy, never owned any of their products, and I am perfectly conscious that these BBC-inspired speakers are outdated in some aspects of performance, particularly the directivity many seem so obsessed with to the point of ignoring other equally important aspects of performance or the merits of observational listening or real (as opposed to algorythm-predicted) personal preference.
I also dislike Shaw's mercantile approach which at times turns snake-oilish, as can be understood from my first post and the reason why I posted the video interview.

I disagree with your silly arguments. Audiophiles are unquestionably more demanding than those Amazon buyers of OontZ Angles even if many have what I consider low expectations; maybe some will fall into the trap of trusting alt-objectivists and spinoramists and buy some cheap plastic actives from Amazon, who knows. Harbeth speakers are expensive and they are on back order, and like other BBC-style speakers tend not to lose much value in the used market. They must be doing something right.
I have replaced a pair of PSB T2s (estimated preference rating identical to that of the f208) with a pair of LS3/6s. Are you going to tell me that Science says that I am wrong? Or ask me if I blind-ABX'ed and when I say no you will cry "bias"?

Have a good night.

 

[RayDunzl]

I heard Harbeth briefly once at last year's local show and rather liked what I heard. Seemed to have a quite vivid sound. I remember them over twenty others that I don't.

I considered visiting the somewhat local dealer but did not.

They weren't shown at this year's show so no second opinion.

 

[thewas]

I also dislike Shaw's mercantile approach which at times turns snake-oilish, as can be understood from my first post and the reason why I posted the video interview.

In this case I misunderstood the intention of this new thread and apologise.

I disagree with your silly arguments.

Maybe you should apologise there too as:

Audiophiles are unquestionably more demanding than those Amazon buyers of OontZ Angles even if many have what I consider low expectations; maybe some will fall into the trap of trusting alt-objectivists and spinoramists and buy some cheap plastic actives from Amazon, who knows.

I woudn't even generalise there, I know buyers of bluetooth loudspeakers that did more direct loudspeaker comparisons (even if they are on a lower level) than many self called high end audiophiles.

Harbeth speakers are expensive and they are on back order, and like other BBC-style speakers tend not to lose much value in the used market. They must be doing something right.

On the one hand I agree that Harbeth loudspeakers are not really bad engineered or sounding, considering their old school approach, but on the other hand I disagree that sales and re-sale values must be an index of quality, which was also my first reply in this thread, only if we take it from marketing point of view...

I have replaced a pair of PSB T2s (estimated preference rating identical to that of the f208) with a pair of LS3/6s. Are you going to tell me that Science says that I am wrong? Or ask me if I blind-ABX'ed and when I say no you will cry "bias"?

I have also liked some old school BBC designs or even some B&Ws as they are tuned euphonically and even wouldn't say no if someone gives me a pair of Harbeth M30 for cheap, would never pay their list price like 3000€ for such loudspeakers when I can get a pair of KH310 for that. On the other hand we are in the ASR here and know that really good objectively and subjectively loudspeakers can be obtained for small money. I wish someone would organise blind tests between some highly regarded loudspeakers in the audiophile community and some much cheaper well measuring ones, I am quite positive we would get similar results like http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2009/04/dishonesty-of-sighted-audio-product.html
On the other hand its our hobby and we don't usually listen to loudspeakers blindly, so I have full understanding for someone who wants to be looking also at "legends" as this way they also "sounds" better to them.

Have a good night too.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I heard Harbeth briefly once at last year's local show and rather liked what I heard. Seemed to have a quite vivid sound. I remember them over twenty others that I don't.

I considered visiting the somewhat local dealer but did not.

They weren't shown at this year's show so no second opinion.

Your opinion doesn't count Ray. Your preferred speakers are Harman disapproved.

 

[tuga]

In this case I misunderstood the intention of this new thread and apologise.


Maybe you should apologise there too as:


I woudn't even generalise there, I know buyers of bluetooth loudspeakers that did more direct loudspeaker comparisons (even if they are on a lower level) than many self called high end audiophiles.


On the one hand I agree that Harbeth loudspeakers are not really bad engineered or sounding, considering their old school approach, but on the other hand I disagree that sales and re-sale values must be an index of quality, which was also my first reply in this thread, only if we take it from marketing point of view...


I have also liked some old school BBC designs or even some B&Ws as they are tuned euphonically and even wouldn't say no if someone gives me a pair of Harbeth M30 for cheap, would never pay their list price like 3000€ for such loudspeakers when I can get a pair of KH310 for that. On the other hand we are in the ASR here and know that really good objectively and subjectively loudspeakers can be obtained for small money. I wish someone would organise blind tests between some highly regarded loudspeakers in the audiophile community and some much cheaper well measuring ones, I am quite positive we would get similar results like http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2009/04/dishonesty-of-sighted-audio-product.html
On the other hand its our hobby and we don't usually listen to loudspeakers blindly, so I have full understanding for someone who wants to be looking also at "legends" as this way they also "sounds" better to them.

Have a good night too.

I shouldn't be on the internet this late. My apologies.

I really enjoy and learn from what you post and was very surprised because your views tend to be objective and balances. Time for bed.

 

[thewas]

I shouldn't be on the internet this late. My apologies.
I really enjoy and learn from what you post and was very surprised because your views tend to be objective and balances. Time for bed.

Thank you and the same here (even one hour later than UK ) , please keep in mind that unfortunately not all of us here are English speaking natives, so the chance of misunderstandings is increased.

 

[VMAT4]

I have to agree that a speaker can not be fatiguing. Nice to see it's his priority. I made it to the twentieth minute. That's it.

 

[March Audio]

Engineering or sales pitch?

Harbeth is doing brilliantly sales-wise according to Shaw...

It wouldnt be a hifi show without a blast of Jazz At The Pawnshop

 

[pozz]

It seems as though he really prioritizes getting the human voice to sound "correct".

The BBC historically used speech to test speaker quality. It's a holdover of assessment methods from another era.

 

[Blake Klondike]

I heard a pair of P3ESR several times and absolutely loved the sound-- i had no idea what to expect, and they literally brought tears to my eyes. They didn't reproduce all the hallmarks on my test tracks as well as my Genelecs (e.g. the reverb on the finger snaps at the beginning of "if i were a bell" on relaxin' w/ miles davis) but I found the sound they did make to be absolutely right for my ears. They are too expensive for my budget for now, but I would buy a pair in a heartbeat and use them for the material that suits them best. I have read a lot of AS interviews, and he strikes me as the most objectivist designer out there. In fact, he and the folks here at ASR are the only sources I feel I can trust implicitly.

 

[Absolute]

For those of us that can't watch the entire video, what are the key points he said?

 

[Thomas savage]

Thank you and the same here (even one hour later than UK ) , please keep in mind that unfortunately not all of us here are English speaking natives, so the chance of misunderstandings is increased.

Good point , that and the nature of these forums .

Keep in mind too general fatigue sets in when things are argued to death. People can also argue themselves up a hill they can never descend from , this is where you get these quite artificial polar extremes from the actors involved.

A lot of this might happen face to face but I personally doubt it at least not as frequently.

A little self check every now and then is useful for all of us imo.

 

[Jimmyblues1959]

Engineering or sales pitch?

Harbeth is doing brilliantly sales-wise according to Shaw...

Bought a pair of rosewood Harbeth HLP3ES's with matching passive subwoofers back in the 1990's.
They were really nice sounding speakers. Glad to see that the brand continues to thrive!