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AirPlay issue - skipping first seconds of songs

redshift

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Do you think that this is something that could be fixed changing the router parameters? maybe it’s a silly question, I am not sure if AirPlay send the signal directly to the receiver or via router. Or is strictly WXC-50 depending…

Via the gateway. I doubt there is an issue with the network. It is likely a crappy buffering or codec implementation in the firmware of the Yamaha.
 
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BitPerfect_

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But can we eliminate from this equation the iOS 14.7 if the MacOS 11.5 is fine? Johannes reported no errors on MacOS 11.5 a few moments ago.
 

ElNino

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Unless I've missed it, no one's asked what Airplay 1 target/receiver you're playing to.

There are two kinds of Airplay 1 targets; those based on the official Apple reference implementation in the devkit code (which is proprietary but has been leaked on various dodgy websites; it's actually pretty interesting to read the source) and those based on Shairport and its forks. Because Airplay 1 does zero clock synchronization, the receiver needs a resampler to handle clock drift between sender and receiver. It's not always in use -- there's some hysteresis involved so that the protocol is bitperfect most of the time if the clocks are not too divergent. But depending on how things are configured, this can be a cause of the problem. If you're relying on a self-built build of Shairport/Shairport Sync, also be aware that you can build it with no resampler, in which case losing about two seconds of playback material is to be expected.
 
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BitPerfect_

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I would love to answer your question but not so sure how can I find this information and where(?)
 

mononoaware

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I think it is WXC-50 issue.
I used Apple TV 3 for 5+ years as AirPlay receiver (to optical output) reliably without any consistent issues.

Once a year sometimes restarting router would cause drop outs in audio, this was solved simply by unplugging Apple TV3 from wall socket, waiting few minutes and plugging back in.

If you cannot solve issue consider finding Apple TV 3 to use for AirPlay streaming (Toslink optical output only).
 

mononoaware

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@ElNino, @mononoaware,
It could be but again, make no sense as long as using MacOS 11.5 as Johannes reported, there are no errors, isn't?

I assume that Apple gives a different protocol to third-party products (Yamaha etc), or the protocol is better compatible (optimised) with Apple’s own designed products.

And maybe Apple is doing “silent” updates on their products in the background to maintain flawless operation.

I have rarely heard people using Apple products mention issues with “AirPlay”.
And it has been confirmed in my past experience.
 
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BitPerfect_

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There is only one way to find out, using an iPhone with earlier version of iOS (maybe iOS 14.6 ... 13).
I'll try to see if there is a way to downgrade the iOS 14.7 ...
 

mononoaware

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There is only one way to find out, using an iPhone with earlier version of iOS (maybe iOS 14.6 ... 13).
I'll try to see if there is a way to downgrade the iOS 14.7 ...

I could perform the test myself, but it would mean setting up the Apple TV3 again since I factory reset it.

I think it is highly unlikely iOS update is the cause (based on 5+ years of updates and great operation).

I would recommend keeping your iOS device up-to-date for updated security reasons.
 
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BitPerfect_

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I don't think it would be relevant because, you're not using WXC-50, you are using the Apple TV3, right?
 

ElNino

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@ElNino, @mononoaware,
It could be but again, make no sense as long as using MacOS 11.5 as Johannes reported, there are no errors, isn't?

If you follow the Shairport-sync issue threads on GitHub, Apple sometimes tweaks minor parameters of how they send Airplay 1 data with various OS updates. Sometimes they requires minor updates to Shairport-sync.

Apple should not make changes that break any of the official Airplay receivers or ones built using the officially licensed third-party development sources. If they have, they'll see it as a bug and it'll probably get fixed soon. If they break Shairport-sync, they won't consider it a bug and it's up to the vendor to fix.
 

mononoaware

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I don't think it would be relevant because, you're not using WXC-50, you are using the Apple TV3, right?

Yes it slipped my mind ha-ha.

It is interesting since a few months ago I also considered purchasing a third-party device with AirPlay, but decided instead to get a M1 Mac Mini to use as source/player.

It was a decision between brand-new iPhone with large (256GB) storage to sync and AirPlay the audio archive, or pay less for headless M1 Mac Mini setup with 512GB storage.

I have graduated from AirPlay now and M1 Mac Mini connects to DAC via USB.
I use iOS iTunes Remote App to control playback on Mac while it is headless.

Edit: on top of receiving automatic updates for the next 10 years, there is further investment in the Mac which is that I can use it as a computer if my current PC dies from old age.
I have been a Windows user since the beginning, but I am sure I can learn how to use Mac quickly.
 
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BitPerfect_

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@mononoaware
| Yes it slipped my mind ha-ha
it's fine, it happens.

Great to hear that! in my case, it will be great to enjoy Apple Music via AirPlay, using the existing devices :)
More than that, as far as I've read it looks like at least for the moment, AirPlay 1 is using ALAC vs. AirPlay 2 which is using AAC lossy. If Apple will upgrade the AirPlay protocol to stream higher bitrates (if this will be possible), perhaps I'll have to think about an upgrade.

@ElNino
Thanks for letting me know that. I'm not a GitHub user, I am able to understand the essence but not at deeper levels, I don't have programming knowledge. On the other hand, I think that if the issue will be confirmed as a Yamaha or Apple issue, I can write an e-mail to them and expose the behavior in order to be analyzed.
 

redshift

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If you follow the Shairport-sync issue threads on GitHub, Apple sometimes tweaks minor parameters of how they send Airplay 1 data with various OS updates. Sometimes they requires minor updates to Shairport-sync.

Apple should not make changes that break any of the official Airplay receivers or ones built using the officially licensed third-party development sources. If they have, they'll see it as a bug and it'll probably get fixed soon. If they break Shairport-sync, they won't consider it a bug and it's up to the vendor to fix.

Yes, don’t buy Hifi gear from vendors that likely doesn’t know or bother about how to keep their legacy products alive for at least a decade. Pretty much all android phones are abadonware after the few first OS updates.
 

mononoaware

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AirPlay 1 is using ALAC vs. AirPlay 2 which is using AAC lossy.

I think I read this somewhere but AirPlay 2 has the option to use/support AAC only under certain conditions.
(I assume an example of this is when your device is further away from receiver with weak WiFi reception therefore lower transfer speed/throughput).
 
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BitPerfect_

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My Cambridge streamer/amp have about 0.3s delay from changing the song. The same with my Marantz. It is tolerable. The Yamaha about 1-2s. Way too much.

A short update,
I've done a test AirPlay-ing from AppleMusic to a Sony TV (AirPlay add-on installed) using the same iPhone7 (iOS 14.7). The issue was replicated which guide us to the conclusion that it's not about the streamer WXC-50, most likely an iOS 14.7 (wifi buffer?) issue.
 

Johannes AU

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A short update,
I've done a test AirPlay-ing from AppleMusic to a Sony TV (AirPlay add-on installed) using the same iPhone7 (iOS 14.7). The issue was replicated which guide us to the conclusion that it's not about the streamer WXC-50, most likely an iOS 14.7 (wifi buffer?) issue.


Your guess at start is correct ......
 

mononoaware

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The issue was replicated which guide us to the conclusion that it's not about the streamer WXC-50, most likely an iOS 14.7 (wifi buffer?) issue.

Or it is an issue with third-party AirPlay receivers, like I mentioned as first possibility.

I know iOS 14.7 fixed something related to “Dolby Atmos” enabled Apple Music tracks which would turn to silence after 10-15 seconds elapsed.
So maybe Apple also updated iOS AirPlay protocol, then silent update to Apple official AirPlay products.

Roll-out for fix for update probably comes from Yamaha/Sony, once they have received the update from Apple.
 
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