[advice] is a Schiit Vali “Tube” amp overkill for a HD800s and for pc FPS gaming only?

[AmalfiMan]

It may provide a cleaner signal depending on your mobo's onboard sound card but it's not strictly required.

Do you already use standard analog headphones with it? If so, and you don't get any hiss or weird noises coming though then you can just get an 1/8" / 3.5mm to RCA cable and connect your mobo to a dedicated amp like the Magni Heresy.

If you do get noise through it then a separate DAC may help. It's also possible to get ground loops between the DAC, amp, and the PC that will add noise which wasn't there before.



That's a great DAC and ADC but the headphone out it pretty weak, even weaker than the Fulla. It would be great if you wanted to add a pro microphone for your voice chat or something though.

Most audiophile headphones are much less efficient than typical consumer headphones and you may not get a satisfying volume out of the Motu M2 or the Fulla with the HD800S. Don't believe the pseudo-magical claims a lot of people make about how amps alter the sound. It's mostly audiophool mythology. There two most important things in an amp are the residual noise level (so sensitive in ear 'phones don't hiss) and power output (so less sensitive headphones can go loud enough).

If your onboard sound is already clean you can go with just an amplifier like the Schiit Magni 3 Heresy, JDS Atom Amp+, or Topping L30.

If your onboard audio isn't that great then a Schiit Hel or Topping DX3 Pro+ are worth checking out.

Also, regarding the HD650 and it's variants. They are very light so as to never weigh you down and fairly open so your ears shouldn't get too hot. On the other hand they clamp tighter which may get annoying after a while and have smaller and shallower ear cups which will almost certainly press against your ears. I have both the 650 and the original 800 and for me the 800's comfort wins by a mile. Of course a lot of comfort is personal so whatever you go make sure to buy from a place with a a good return policy or used so you can resell without much of a loss

The 650's soundstage doesn't touch the 800S' either. If you need positional audio with comfort and can afford it, the 800S is excellent choice.

There are some gamers on here, but this forum is primarily focused towards audio in the contexts of primarily hi-fi music and secondarily home theater so most people here probably weight their priorities a bit differently than what is required for competitive FPS gaming. I'm a gamer too, but in much different genres, so even I might be leaving something out.

I ordered the Topping EX5 because of the Bluetooth 5.0, and remote control, for flexibility for other use cases. It’s $350 dac amp combo. Is this good enough for the HD800S? I get to test this tomorrow when this all arrives.
The schiit hel 2 is sold out but it doesn’t have BT or remote so I’m willing to pay more.

 

[retroflex]

I ordered the Topping EX5 because of the Bluetooth 5.0, and remote control, for flexibility for other use cases. It’s $350 dac amp combo. Is this good enough for the HD800S?

Yes absolutely, more than enough. And if you find that it doesn't play quite loud enough out of the box you can switch it to high-gain mode and it'll play as loudly as you want. Took me a while to figure that out.

You might also notice that it stays a little warm even when it's in standby, that's normal unfortunately, if it's a problem for you you'll have to manually turn it on and off with the switch.

 

[AmalfiMan]

Yes absolutely, more than enough. And if you find that it doesn't play quite loud enough out of the box you can switch it to high-gain mode and it'll play as loudly as you want. Took me a while to figure that out.

You might also notice that it stays a little warm even when it's in standby, that's normal unfortunately, if it's a problem for you you'll have to manually turn it on and off with the switch.

Good to know as I was planning to place in an enclosed cabinet and use the remote.

 

[maverickronin]

I ordered the Topping EX5 because of the Bluetooth 5.0, and remote control, for flexibility for other use cases. It’s $350 dac amp combo. Is this good enough for the HD800S? I get to test this tomorrow when this all arrives.
The schiit hel 2 is sold out but it doesn’t have BT or remote so I’m willing to pay more.

That should be great. I just didn't mention it before because it was over your budget.

 

[AmalfiMan]

That should be great. I just didn't mention it before because it was over your budget.

Most others under 300 are on back order, like the schiit hel 2. Or with longer delivery times around 2 weeks later. The ex5 was delivered same day. Lol. I still will receive the Schiit Mag Heresy tomorrow to try.

I noticed the prices go up with that MQA feature. I read about it and understood it. I will test it with Tidal. I wonder if video games can benefit from it.

The SMSL is $100 bucks cheaper at $250 but lacks MQA. What do you think?

 

[maverickronin]

I noticed the prices go up with that MQA feature. I read about it and understood it. I will test it with Tidal. I wonder if video games can benefit from it.

MQA doesn't really do anything useful. It's been reverse engineered, but without approval from and fees to the MQA you can't make that light on the DAC come on and game devs don't have any reason to care.

The SMSL is $100 bucks cheaper at $250 but lacks MQA. What do you think?

Which SMSL?

 

[AmalfiMan]

MQA doesn't really do anything useful. It's been reverse engineered, but without approval from and fees to the MQA you can't make that light on the DAC come on and game devs don't have any reason to care.



Which SMSL?

Amazon’s algorithm moves this to the top of list when searching dac/amps.

S.M.S.L DA-9 Bluetooth 5.0 NJW1194 Hi-Res Audio Power Amplifier https://www.amazon.com/dp/B091C9WV9Z/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_S8CT8GCY8VAHE8HPJGYN?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

 

[maverickronin]

Amazon’s algorithm moves this to the top of list when searching dac/amps.

S.M.S.L DA-9 Bluetooth 5.0 NJW1194 Hi-Res Audio Power Amplifier https://www.amazon.com/dp/B091C9WV9Z/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_S8CT8GCY8VAHE8HPJGYN?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

That one is actually for speakers, not headphones.

 

[AmalfiMan]

That one is actually for speakers, not headphones.

UPDATE: the schiit magny heresy worked fine to power the HD800s. You were right, my MSI mobo offered a clean dac signal.
However, I decided to keep the Topping EX5 as I like the bluetooth feature. I used it for the Apple TV4K and sounded just as as good as the more native airpod max, and far more comfortable during long movies. Also, the HD800s doesn't leak sound as loud as the PC38x so it didn't bother folks nearby.

That one is actually for speakers, not headphones.

the $350 topping ex5 works great with the HD800S. I use the Bluetooth for the AppleTV4K to listen to netflix etc. super comfy headphone and the main reason i will keep it. And my gaming has improved with better soundstage.

QUESTION: For under $600, what other Amps would you get for the next level? My PC has a clean dac signal so just an Amp.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

QUESTION: For under $600, what other Amps would you get for the next level? My PC has a clean dac signal so just an Amp.

There is no next level soundwise. It does not get any better than "transparent". Only reason to upgrade could be features.

The one thing you can do to get even better sound is using an EQ, like EQ APO, and try the Settings for the HD800s by Oratory1990 or from Amir's review and tune to taste. After that you are done and can concentrate on killing time and pixels

 

[AmalfiMan]

There is no next level soundwise. It does not get any better than "transparent". Only reason to upgrade could be features.

The one thing you can do to get even better sound is using an EQ, like EQ APO, and try the Settings for the HD800s by Oratory1990 or from Amir's review and tune to taste. After that you are done and can concentrate on killing time and pixels

Ok great, thanks. I asked this question on another forum and the answers are interesting. They recommended a RME for $1300. The built in EQ seems convenient and I wonder if it works when bypassing the PC software EQ. For example, connecting directly from amp to my iPhone.
https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...-there-anything-else-better-for-hd800s.34744/

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Ok great, thanks. I asked this question on another forum and the answers are interesting. They recommended a RME for $1300. The built in EQ seems convenient and I wonder if it works when bypassing the PC software EQ. For example, connecting directly from amp to my iPhone.
https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...-there-anything-else-better-for-hd800s.34744/

Sure, the RME is great, i use it myself. That's what i meant with "features". I am saying, without EQ, it will not sound better than your Topping.

 

[nyxnyxnyx]

I will go against the common notion here that tube is mostly underwhelming.
The safest choice is to pick a great, affordable solid state like JDS Atom, Topping L30 and so on. But in the case of hybrid or OTL designs they might actually sound fine too, just know that you might:
1) pay more for the performance in comparison with solid state counterparts
2) tubes may get hot and it might make you feel uncomfortable
3) tubes may die and you will need to replace it

If you are cool with all of the above then I say you can give it a try.

 

[AmalfiMan]

I will go against the common notion here that tube is mostly underwhelming.
The safest choice is to pick a great, affordable solid state like JDS Atom, Topping L30 and so on. But in the case of hybrid or OTL designs they might actually sound fine too, just know that you might:
1) pay more for the performance in comparison with solid state counterparts
2) tubes may get hot and it might make you feel uncomfortable
3) tubes may die and you will need to replace it

If you are cool with all of the above then I say you can give it a try.

Ok thanks. I notice folks claim the tube offers “warmer” sound versus analytical. I have no idea what warmer means.
However I am using the newest Topping EX5 now and it sounds fine. The JDS and L30 seems to be gone on Amazon.

 

[Veri]

Ok thanks. I notice folks claim the tube offers “warmer” sound versus analytical. I have no idea what warmer means.

Don't worry. Neither do they

 

[AmalfiMan]

Sure, the RME is great, i use it myself. That's what i meant with "features". I am saying, without EQ, it will not sound better than your Topping.

OMg, my wife will kil me if I buy a $1300 amp. LOL. This search for new headphones was supposed to be simple.

I did buy the airpod max last year for $500, and I hate wearing it now after experiencing the HD800S, since it feels clampy and fatigues the ears from the vacuum pressure.

Oh fcuk it, its just money. I will see what value I get with the RME EQ for other uses outside the PC’s software eq.

 

[nyxnyxnyx]

Ok thanks. I notice folks claim the tube offers “warmer” sound versus analytical. I have no idea what warmer means.
However I am using the newest Topping EX5 now and it sounds fine. The JDS and L30 seems to be gone on Amazon.

It's mostly a load of subjective experiences. I think the "warmer" part could be explained with some headphones having low impedance while the tube amp has high output impedance, but even so it is still not that significant.
If you use high impedance dynamic headphones like HD800 then tube amplifier might do the job greatly for you, albeit there's no guarantee that it will sound better than what you already have

 

[nyxnyxnyx]

FWIW I used to use some IEMs with a high impedance jack (search dunu impedance jack on aliexpress) with some tube amp. The result is it was definitely more boomy and bloated in the bass region while the tonal is a tad warmer than when I plug it in my Atom. It's not a sonic improvement but definitely something different.

 

[AmalfiMan]

FWIW I used to use some IEMs with a high impedance jack (search dunu impedance jack on aliexpress) with some tube amp. The result is it was definitely more boomy and bloated in the bass region while the tonal is a tad warmer than when I plug it in my Atom. It's not a sonic improvement but definitely something different.

Silly question….i learned the word IEM a few days ago. So how does Apple Airpods gen 2 compare?

 

[nyxnyxnyx]

Silly question….i learned the word IEM a few days ago. So how does Apple Airpods gen 2 compare?

Sorry I don't really use Apple stuff so I don't know. But based on discussions and and reviews you can probably grab better-sounding IEMs from other brands for less than $100