Adding PEQ to AVR over HDMI

[yelloguy]

My current set up is using a Marantz 5015 AVR. I have an Apple TV 4K connected with HDMI for watching movies in 5.1 surround. I have a FireTV Stick connected with HDMI for watching TV shows. And I recently bought a WiiM mini for playing music over optical connection. I also have a Windows PC connected over HDMI to do REW measurements with umik-1 and try out the Equalizer APO etc. But I don't use the PC to watch movies or TV shows because of the lack of a remote control.

I like the WiiM (save for a couple of small problems) for playing music with my custom PEQ, but I want to add the same PEQ to Apple TV and FireTV stick as well. I can see a few options:

1. Getting WiiM Pro and using it's additional audio input. My Apple TV (in my home theater) does not have an optical out. I will have to switch it with the older ATV from my bedroom. The audio will not be over HDMI and I will have to set up WiiM optical source as the source for getting Apple TV audio. It is just more complicated. And I will not be able to EQ the Fire TV

2. Get a miniDSP or similar device. These take analog input and provide analog output. I am not sure how I would introduce it in the signal chain

3. Pay for the Audyssey Windows app and get a license for my AVR for $200. This allows me to set up the PEQ on the AVR in a clean way for all the sources. But seems a little pricey.

4. Get a new AVR from Yamaha. I learned some models provide PEQ ability out of the box. I can probably buy one for the price I would get for my Marantz in the used market. The downside here is that the sound quality will be unknown. I will have to start from scratch and do the measurements and EQ again.

Any other options I am missing?

 

[staticV3]

No WiiM solution will allow you to keep watching in 5.1 surround.
2.1 is all that you'll get.

A miniDSP solution with analog in/out I also don't see working out well.
A 6ch DSP unit will be expensive, and you'll need to buy two additional 6ch DACs for the ATV and Fire TV.
No idea how you'd connect them though.

Tbh, paying for the Audyssey license seems like the most logical choice, as integration will be seamless and you'll be able to keep watching in 5.1 surround.

 

[diablo]

I agree with StaticV3. Though I thought I'd better mention that option 4, new Yamaha, is a bad idea. Yes, they have adjustable PEQs on each channel, but they are limited to certain frequencies and difficult to use. I've tried putting in filters suggested by REW EQ and adapted for the Yamaha frequencies - but for some reason it sounds terrible.

Better to get the Audessy licence for your existing AVR.

I have a Yamaha A8A and have the pre-outs fed into MiniDSPs fo get good sound.

 

[yelloguy]

This is super helpful! Thanks so much for chiming in.

I guess the Audyssey license option was my least favorite and I would have avoided it even if I had to do extra work. But with this info, it seems like the only option. Let me chew it over a bit.

Thanks again.

 

[yelloguy]

Coming at it from another angle -

I have the subwoofer at +6 for my overall settings (Audyssey + PEQ) while listening to music. But this gives me heavy resonance when watching 5.1 material (there are some +10dB peaks visible in REW plots). I tend to reduce the subwoofer to 0 to get rid of these (I realize I am losing some frequencies because I am reducing overall bass).

If I could have the setting of the subwoofer change based on the source, I could live with this as movies are less important to my overall enjoyment. I would have Apple TV and Fire TV sources set to subwoofer=0 and I will have the WiiM source set to subwoofer +6. Is this possible? The AVR remembers the Audyssey mode (Reference, LR Bypass, Flat) on a per source basis. It also remembers the sound modes (Stereo, Dolby Digital, Pure Direct) on a per source basis. But the subwoofer bias, it only allows for all sources. Is there a clever hack? Or is that a question for a different forum! heh

 

[staticV3]

If I could have the setting of the subwoofer change based on the source, I could live with this as movies are less important to my overall enjoyment. I would have Apple TV and Fire TV sources set to subwoofer=0 and I will have the WiiM source set to subwoofer +6. Is this possible? The AVR remembers the Audyssey mode (Reference, LR Bypass, Flat) on a per source basis. It also remembers the sound modes (Stereo, Dolby Digital, Pure Direct) on a per source basis. But the subwoofer bias, it only allows for all sources. Is there a clever hack? Or is that a question for a different forum! heh

Instead of source-dependent subwoofer levels, it would be more logical to apply room correction to the sub, which would remove these resonances altogether.

You can then use the same sub level for both music and movies.

If you're looking for a super cheap way to EQ the sub, then look into the iWoofer platform.

 

[OCA]

Coming at it from another angle -

I have the subwoofer at +6 for my overall settings (Audyssey + PEQ) while listening to music. But this gives me heavy resonance when watching 5.1 material (there are some +10dB peaks visible in REW plots). I tend to reduce the subwoofer to 0 to get rid of these (I realize I am losing some frequencies because I am reducing overall bass).

If I could have the setting of the subwoofer change based on the source, I could live with this as movies are less important to my overall enjoyment. I would have Apple TV and Fire TV sources set to subwoofer=0 and I will have the WiiM source set to subwoofer +6. Is this possible? The AVR remembers the Audyssey mode (Reference, LR Bypass, Flat) on a per source basis. It also remembers the sound modes (Stereo, Dolby Digital, Pure Direct) on a per source basis. But the subwoofer bias, it only allows for all sources. Is there a clever hack? Or is that a question for a different forum! heh

Optimize your Audyssey calibration with A1 Evo.

 

[jack0769]

Here are two additional solutions :

1. Use an Audio Interface with Built-in PEQ (e.g., RME, Focusrite, etc.)
High-quality audio interface devices (such as RME Babyface, Focusrite Scarlett series, etc.) can provide advanced EQ adjustment features, and they typically connect via USB to your PC. This allows you to apply PEQ adjustments within the PC and then route the audio to your AVR or other sound system. The benefits include:
- You can manage the PEQ for different audio sources (including Apple TV and FireTV Stick) centrally.
- These devices often deliver high-quality audio conversion, ensuring no compromise in sound quality.
- You can use audio processing software on your computer (such as Equalizer APO or Room EQ Wizard) for flexible EQ adjustments.
- It doesn't require replacing the AVR or complicating the hardware signal chain.

Drawbacks:
- Requires an additional audio interface device, and setup might need some technical knowledge.
- If you want to cover multiple sources, you may need a multi-channel audio interface or additional signal routing hardware.

2. Use a Multi-Channel Hardware Equalizer (e.g., Behringer Ultracurve, etc.)
Multi-channel hardware equalizers like the Behringer Ultracurve can handle multiple audio sources and apply PEQ adjustments. You can connect the audio from the Apple TV, Fire TV Stick, and WiiM mini into this device (either analog or digital inputs), and then use its built-in PEQ functions to fine-tune the sound. These devices typically support multiple audio inputs and outputs, allowing you to process the sound from different sources independently. This approach would allow you to maintain control over the EQ without needing to replace the AVR or rely on expensive software licenses.

Benefits:
- Provides flexible and detailed PEQ adjustments.
- Can handle multiple audio inputs and outputs, allowing processing of various sources.
- It is a standalone hardware solution, independent of your PC or specific software.

Drawbacks:
- Requires additional hardware (like Behringer Ultracurve) to handle and process the audio signals.
- Setup can be more complex, requiring additional connections and adjustments, which may increase operational complexity.

Both of these solutions offer flexibility and control while avoiding the need to replace your AVR or depend on costly software. They can be more suitable for users who want high customization without entirely replacing their current setup.

 

[Oddball]

I would go for Audy EQ X as no new hardware required. It might surprise you what you can do with it even without loading PEQ filters. You basically set a broad curve, see what it does and then address any specific areas you are not happy with with additional filters - until you get either what you want, or max that Audy can provide.

Lots of fiddling around will be necessary for best results though and REW will be your best friend to verify the results.

 

[yelloguy]

Thank you both for your help. I will look into the hardware solutions when I have a few minutes to learn more.

But at this time, I am all set with the A1 Nexus script generated filters. I took the suggestion from OCA above and started looking into the A1 Evo as it was evolving. I got very good results but there was still a peak and a null that was problematic. Right about that time OCA released the Nexus version of the script. When I tried to feed it my REW measurements, it spat out an Audyssey calibration file for me including a few settings. When I loaded them up, I got excellent sound. And on measurements with REW I get a reasonably flat response.

This allows me to use all sources through the receiver with no PEQ needed.

 

[Oddball]

That is indeed the "easy way out button" and thus so popular - and @OCA definitively deserves gratitude of many for his great work.

 

[yelloguy]

Absolutely. On top of it, he posted it here because he knew what the solution was.

You have all the pieces, a mic for measuring, REW for generating filters, and Audyssey accepts those filters albeit in a roundabout way. OCA put all these together in a brilliant script. Result is clearly audible, and can be measured with REW. Huge thanks for putting in the work OCA.

 

[Oddball]

This script is obviously hugely valuable and does not require Multi EQ X that is apparently costly.

I am for whatever reason uncomfortable with scripts and prefer Multi EQ X where I can visualise the results and somewhat predict the outcomes before even using REW and the adjust the outcomes with surgical precision over entire frequency response range after REW - obviously within the limits of what Audy can do, with or without script.

Once your system gets complicated, the price of Multi EQ X would be a rounding error and paranoia of using scripts would likely become your worst nightmare.

But understand that many members are more comfortable with scripts and codes and that is why this solution should be applauded.

 

[yelloguy]

I 100% see your point. But for my usage, I could not justify the price tag for a single user license per serial. If the license was tied to me, I could spread the cost for a couple of future D+M AVR's. But for one AVR, I could not justify it. I have a very modest set up and I prefer putting all my spend towards speakers (I have never understood people who spend several thousands on audio gear to drive a $600 pair of Polk or Klipsch speakers).

As to the paranoia, it is generating an ady file. You can examine it in a plain text editor. It is not black magic. In theory you can do it by hand. I mean REW is generating the filters and doing the analysis for you, so that is more of a black magic than the script is. But all that is also plainly visible to you. I honestly prefer this approach to anything else. There are a couple of next level tools floating around that are based off of OCA's script. But the script is as bare bones as it gets. The entire code is visible to you, as is the REW analysis. The script tells you which settings to change and what to look for etc. Like a friendly guide.

 

[Oddball]

I do get the point, but difficult to explain if not advanced user of Multi EQ X.

You can build curves and additional filters and get predicted response graphs. Over time and knowledge of room and system, you get to understand how it will likely REW. Something I can’t really see from the code. But could be just my blindness to the code.

What I think is a bigger issue is people understanding their preferences and what curve to apply. That is very system and preference dependent and getting that right, with or without the script, is quite difficult and time demanding.

 

[yelloguy]

What I think is a bigger issue is people understanding their preferences and what curve to apply.

Interesting you say that. Different curves also have a different impact on the volume levels you listen to. I know DEQ is supposed to address that but I do not like the "unknown" factor of DEQ. I find myself preferring the sound I get at the volume I calibrated on with the curve I chose. If I turn down the volume and DEQ kicks in, it changes the sound "texture" too much. I find turning off DEQ gives me the same sound back but with lower bass (of course). I find that an acceptable compromise.

 

[Oddball]

DEQ is a matter of taste and obviously optional. You can use 4 Audy presets to set curves for your listening range without DEQ. Or there is DEQ offset in -5dB increments if that is to complex. Offset should probably come with a more granular adjustment scale though.

Audy also has a set of other tools for various listening environments where lesser impact is required. This is probably also very useful set of tools for lots of users without dedicated and sound proofed HTs.

Overall, Audy is doing great in most aspects, but will not align more complex sub setup with mains like DLBC would. And yeah, D&M should offer more granular crossover adjustments. At this day and age 20/40/60/80 hz seems like quite outdated. Not Audy fault though - it’s D&M firmware.