A surprise on Qobuz...

[Galliardist]

It‘s clear that the term hi-res was born out of a misunderstanding of the technology by the people who coined it. It invokes the coarse vs fine stair steps simile that seems so hard to get rid of. If anything, formats using >44.1kHz or >16bit samples should be called hi-bandwidth or hi-SNR, respectively. That of course would put the spotlight on the actual SNR and bandwidth of the material, which would then likely reveal that the choice of digital format isn’t the bottleneck here.

I personally would choose formats like 96/24 over 44.1/16, simply because I like the added SNR headroom for digital processing on the playback side. After volume levelling and digital volume control, DSP or Dirac I can easily be -20 to -30dB down from the original signal level.

I think the higher bandwidth of 96kHz can be beneficial for the selection of less intrusive anti-aliasing filters, but at my age I don’t care about anything above 16kHz, so 44.1 is fine for me. It’s just that 44.1/24 material is not so common.

If you run Qobuz (and increasingly Tidal through the PC or Mac apps) you'll find 44.1/24 is becoming a kind of de facto format for big name releases and now spreading to most new releases. This is also the format that people cutting LPs from digital like to use, and (despite those big DR differences that get reported) they are often the same files.

 

[Galliardist]

I did a long search in the archives of this editor present on Qobuz, following the very interesting message from another participant in these discussions and informed him in my response of my comments and thanked him for it.

Concerning these L2 discs offered in streaming and for sale on Qobuz: in streaming, there are clearly MQAs not indicated as such given the format change made during playback (24/192 becomes 24/44.1). But for sale, the same recordings are in PCM not encoded in MQA... (choice of 24/96 or 16/44.1 and not in multichannel when the SACD version offers this layer)...

But these are the discs of a very particular small publisher which made the ostensible choice of MQA (and which ironically spits on Dolby Atmos because it is lossy compressed). Because to listen to lots of new releases every day on Qobuz (it's my job to do so), I have never encountered MQA on a Warner, Decca, Harmonia Mundi, DG, RCA, Sony, Mirare, Erato, Alpha, etc. If you have one or more to report to me, I am very interested in one of my articles and to annoy Qobuz.
But something tells me that they don't even know what they have put online in detail... because I have pointed out to them several times errors that they are struggling to correct... But I am going to point out these to them MQA tracks not reported... (well, they don't sell them!)

There are a few more MQA files on Qobuz than the 2L ones and they have been reported in other threads around ASR. All are from small labels, and I don't believe the number of non-2L ones even reach double figures.

It would be interesting to know the process used to put a file onto Qobuz. Is it outsourced, as with Tidal?

 

[Phorize]

View attachment 347066

Dear Qobuz: Just stop it. Who is the member from Qobuz again?

Agree. @Pierre Qobuz Qobuz does many things very right but this and hardware reviews citing 'high end musicality' is just embarrassing

Edit: and now that I've complained about something, can I ask for the ability to add labels as 'favorites'?

 

[Haskil]

If you run Qobuz (and increasingly Tidal through the PC or Mac apps) you'll find 44.1/24 is becoming a kind of de facto format for big name releases and now spreading to most new releases. This is also the format that people cutting LPs from digital like to use, and (despite those big DR differences that get reported) they are often the same files.

I'm going to ask Qobuz how the recordings are put online.

For 24/44.1: I see very very few on Qobuz among the new classical music, I specify classical music.

In fact, before these L2 examples I had never seen one that I remember. So maybe but very very rare.

I see some 24/48 (often for original radio recordings, because 48 Khz is the standard sampling frequency for studios and it is that of radio and television stations united within the European Radio and Television Union or rare recordings made in multichannel 20 years ago for SACD version), some 16/44.1 (new releases and historical mono recordings) and the rest in 24/96 (even the online releases of the mono archives LP of the Bibliothèque nationale de France ) and 24/192 occasionally a 24/176 or 88

Do you have examples of this majority influx of 24/44.1?

 

[Galliardist]

I'm going to ask Qobuz how the recordings are put online.

For 24/44.1: I see very very few on Qobuz among the new classical music, I specify classical music.

In fact, before these L2 examples I had never seen one that I remember. So maybe but very very rare.

I see some 24/48 (often for original radio recordings, because 48 Khz is the standard sampling frequency for studios and it is that of radio and television stations united within the European Radio and Television Union or rare recordings made in multichannel 20 years ago for SACD version), some 16/44.1 (new releases and historical mono recordings) and the rest in 24/96 (even the online releases of the mono archives LP of the Bibliothèque nationale de France ) and 24/192 occasionally a 24/176 or 88

Do you have examples of this majority influx of 24/44.1?

I don’t just play classical music. I’d need to look for classical examples, but I see more 44.1/16 there. It’s more recent releases that are 24 bit… it may be a day or two before I can look,

 

[Haskil]

I don’t just play classical music. I’d need to look for classical examples, but I see more 44.1/16 there. It’s more recent releases that are 24 bit… it may be a day or two before I can look,

So I opened a chat with Qobuz to ask them if they had MQA encoded recordings on their site.
The response was that they had no leads in this format.

I therefore pointed out to them some of the discs from the L2 label, telling them that they were announced to be available in 24/192 for streaming but that when playing they systematically became 24/44.1, in the absence of MQA compatible DACs. And that for purchase they were available in 24/96 and 16/44.1...
They promised to investigate and get back to me.

 

[formdissolve]

I'm a Qobuz user and enjoy it.. but I've also heard about four or five different tracks with obvious encoding errors that are reproducable on different machines/DACs/ etc. It's an encoding error in the FLAC file itself, so I don't think it was there when the studios provided the WAV files. I've checked against a CD copy I owned too and it was NOT on the CD. It's annoying for sure.

 

[NHL99]

Trying out the qobuz free month, and can hear a clear difference compared to spotify using Dan Clark headphones.

Confirming the old Linn phrase 'Source first.'

 

[Timcognito]

I'm a Qobuz user and enjoy it.. but I've also heard about four or five different tracks with obvious encoding errors that are reproducable on different machines/DACs/ etc. It's an encoding error in the FLAC file itself, so I don't think it was there when the studios provided the WAV files. I've checked against a CD copy I owned too and it was NOT on the CD. It's annoying for sure.

Ditto

 

[Haskil]

I'm a Qobuz user and enjoy it.. but I've also heard about four or five different tracks with obvious encoding errors that are reproducable on different machines/DACs/ etc. It's an encoding error in the FLAC file itself, so I don't think it was there when the studios provided the WAV files. I've checked against a CD copy I owned too and it was NOT on the CD. It's annoying for sure.

What type of errors?

 

[formdissolve]

What type of errors?

Encoding errors that come out as glitches, just like ripping a scratched CD without error correction. Next time I hear one, I will keep a note of the track and time position.

 

[Peterinvan]

Chat GPT:

aptX HD, developed by Qualcomm, supports high-resolution audio transmission over Bluetooth. It offers a maximum bitrate of up to 576 kbps, allowing for high-quality audio streaming. This higher bitrate compared to standard aptX allows for more detailed and accurate audio reproduction, making it suitable for audiophiles and those who prioritize audio quality. Keep in mind that both the transmitting and receiving devices must support aptX HD for it to be utilized.

 

[Haskil]

Encoding errors that come out as glitches, just like ripping a scratched CD without error correction. Next time I hear one, I will keep a note of the track and time position.

I just contacted Qobuz again about the MQAs that were hanging around on their site and which they told me they were not aware of and I took the opportunity to ask them if the Flac, Alac, Aiff present on their site were encoded by them or were theirs. -they provided by the integrators. I also asked if the publishers provided the 16 and 24 bits or only the 24 from which Qobuz would draw only the 16 bits...

 

[Haskil]

There are a few more MQA files on Qobuz than the 2L ones and they have been reported in other threads around ASR. All are from small labels, and I don't believe the number of non-2L ones even reach double figures.

It would be interesting to know the process used to put a file onto Qobuz. Is it outsourced, as with Tidal?

Qobuz therefore replied to me regarding the MQA files from the publisher L2 present on its site that they had requested a new delivery of the files to this publisher so that they could be re-imported to replace the old ones. But Qobuz specifies "and the delay is very long"... In passing Qobuz confirms that they refused to put MQA online until this format appeared, with the notable difference from Tidal therefore.

Then Quobuz answers me this about the files they receive from publishers and integrators.
“We receive the files in 16-bit and 24-bit Flac and, in a smaller quantity from the catalog, in WAV. Giving us the possibility of converting these files into other formats.”

If you notice errors: you must write to them and notify them of the faulty file and possibly the timing at which the error occurs.

 

[formdissolve]

Qobuz therefore replied to me regarding the MQA files from the publisher L2 present on its site that they had requested a new delivery of the files to this publisher so that they could be re-imported to replace the old ones. But Qobuz specifies "and the delay is very long"... In passing Qobuz confirms that they refused to put MQA online until this format appeared, with the notable difference from Tidal therefore.

Then Quobuz answers me this about the files they receive from publishers and integrators.
“We receive the files in 16-bit and 24-bit Flac and, in a smaller quantity from the catalog, in WAV. Giving us the possibility of converting these files into other formats.”

If you notice errors: you must write to them and notify them of the faulty file and possibly the timing at which the error occurs.

That's good information to know! I will have to keep track of the encoding errors and let the Qobuz team know.

 

[JIW]

What is High-Resolution Audio? | Qobuz MAGAZINE

Music played in high resolution by an audio system recreates, as close as possible, the original recording experience; accentuating the most minute audible detail, pushing the fidelity as far as possible. High-Resolution audio is the next logical step in the progression of vinyl, cassettes, and...

www.qobuz.com

On its own, this is enough to make me reconsider my use of Qobuz. I suppose "high resolution audio" is one of its selling points, but the step diagram... really?

It has made it onto the Qobuz website. When logged in, I can only get it displayed for Germany in German but when logged out, I could access any country specific site.

To see it in English go to the Qobuz website and make sure you are not logged in, scroll all the way down and select US or UK unless already selected, then scroll all the way down again and select the third last entry in the third column "Discover the best sound quality". For the US,

and for the UK,

It is also in the same place for Germany so may well be there for all other countries.

Here you find the stair steps figure:

Also they write:

Note the claimed increase in precision and naturalness of the sound with increased sample rate.

In the German version, they go even further claiming that the greater the number of bits the greater the dynamic precision of the sound, i.e. the number of values that can be taken by a sound, and the more apparent the variations in sound are and the more depth there seems to be.

Also, the stated number of possible values for 24 bits is obviously incorrectly stated as 16,777,217 since it is 2^24 = 16,777,216. This is obviously false since any even number a to any positive integer power b, i.e. a^b, is itself even. This might only be a typo but any even modestly technically competent editor should have caught that.

 

[voodooless]

 

[formdissolve]

The entire market does this it seems like. Example from WiiM:

Technology on WiiM Pro and Pro Plus | WiiM

www.wiimhome.com

 

[fatoldgit]

I'm a Qobuz user and enjoy it.. but I've also heard about four or five different tracks with obvious encoding errors that are reproducable on different machines/DACs/ etc. It's an encoding error in the FLAC file itself, so I don't think it was there when the studios provided the WAV files. I've checked against a CD copy I owned too and it was NOT on the CD. It's annoying for sure.

I use Qobuz and have encountered glitches in tracks.

I have then checked the same tracks in Tidal and Deezer and the same glitch is there so in all cases (numbering > 30) the issue is with the source file provided and not the streaming service and is an issue at all available resolutions.

Peter

 

[formdissolve]

I use Qobuz and have encountered glitches in tracks.

I have then checked the same tracks in Tidal and Deezer and the same glitch is there so in all cases (numbering > 30) the issue is with the source file provided and not the streaming service and is an issue at all available resolutions.

Peter

Correct. I blame the studios!