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A cloud is the single most important acoustic treatment. Change my mind.

Ron Texas

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I want one too. :p:);)
 

DVDdoug

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It depends on what problem you're trying to solve... If it's simply a reflection, it could help.

Standing waves develop between parallel surfaces so if you have a carpet on the floor you may not need a cloud above. Except that a carpet doesn't do much for low frequencies so you may need a bass trap above (and on other walls). Bass standing waves are usually "the worst".
 

fpitas

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a carpet doesn't do much for low frequencies so you may need a bass trap above
That was part of why I did it. And it helped the bass a lot.
 

fpitas

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My uhm cloud-based absorbers:

Man Cave.jpg
 

MaxwellsEq

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I didn't know ceiling panels had been rebranded "clouds", so it it took a couple of pages to understand. I think some of the early respondents were equally confused.
 

Andysu

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Since the OP asked for their mind to be changed.... I will be oppositional. Is there any height to width ratio for a room where you would say the ceiling is not the most important surface to treat?

I could think of other exceptions, but while they might fit the letter of this thread, they certainly would not be in the spirit.

I have never thought about the relative effects of sidewall versus ceiling first reflections. Now I wish I had an empty room, so I could compare untreated to sidewall first reflection only to ceiling first reflection only.
e6198b91-ec10-40b1-9884-c990231145c9_text.gif


i had this on my mind few no days ago in live video i mentioned " cloud " and real ones and ceiling height
i think i look at loft if had stepladder to get up there and multi mics , length and width so i can sine pink noise RTA test how much bass is up there and how to reduce it even if small amount or think of way of using it to improve bass ? what ever ,

otherwise i think diy the cloud is cheaper , wood and rockwool or maybe layers of MFD screwed to the ceiling with a sandwich of other parts between it

i be sizing up rockwool to sort a small bass snag out , been on my mind for , no years now won't be cheap but if it even improves and alter raises narrow part of bass freq , fine i have MDF cut size and finish off behind the screen make it , cat proof one my cats , ' Bear ' likes going behind projection screen , not good if playing THX sound system , it damage his hearing

i test rockwool and use mic where no mic has gone before , to get the data results if possible on REW ,

i guess i need x6 packets to do 18" thick , sigh i have to make it so dense and then cut size MDF and then cover MDF with some of that treatment fabric i have , cover so it won't have bare reflect mid high sounds or sound like reflective narrow echo or pinging sound , it should fill in where that small narrow bass dip is and raise it up , rather than Eq-ing which doesn't help it , reduces dynamic amp headroom

as for floating suspended MDF rockwool clouds it get in the way of the video projector light beam , good idea if my ceiling was any higher , but i look outside at night i see an infinity amount that expands back into the expanding universe at day i see clouds or scattered clouds with blue atmosphere some 60 miles above where the air gets dense cold and sound slows down , that's my understanding of clouds , just vapour

i would test speakers outside and place these clouds suspended above with REW results , then again i can use large sheet of cardboard hold it above me , yes i hear oddness in part of the sound pressure like sounds like a surface boundary above me !

i want see ASR members do more videos of show me your clouds , pink sine noise mics placed above and below cloud and see here some results for entertainment science
 

ozzy9832001

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If installing absorption on the ceiling isn't feasible, how about something right on top of the speaker and overhanging it? I'm picturing a 2" thick panel as wide as the speaker and overhanging 8" or so. In terms of the ceiling area/subtended angle the drivers "see", this should cover as much as quite a big ceiling panel. Depending on the speaker/drivers, of course.

Would that work?
In the grand scheme of things, a 2" panel probably wouldn't do all that much for the frequencies that are really problematic. I had mine installed across the ceiling/wall interconnect. They were 5.5" thick panels. They did an amazing job at culling the floor/ceiling mode, but did nothing else. It was kind of bizarre, was like a helmholtz.
 

Elder

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Have just finished installing my DIY wall panels and corner "basstraps", the difference on sound is enormous already.

Will be installing my 350mm thick cloud this week, I'll be sure to return with some REW measurements. Super excited to hear the effect it has after such a positive experience with the other treatment.
 

JSmith

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A dead room is not a good room for audio reproduction perception... don't overtreat.
James Moir, added in discussion: “Finally, in my view, if a room requires extensive treatment for stereophonic listening there is something wrong with the stereophonic equipment or the recording. The better the stereophonic reproduction system, the less trouble we have with room acoustics.”
Taken from, Loudspeakers and Rooms for Sound Reproduction - A Scientific Review - Floyd E Toole

um7wk3gxow6ixxcnxj6s.png



JSmith
 

Bjorn

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Considering early arriving vertical reflections are only detrimental, it's important to remove them.
Personally I find discs in the ceiling to be the best looking type of treatment.

Stue Absorbor Disc beige 150 cm (Liten).jpeg


Stereo 1 (Liten).jpg
 

Bjorn

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Before 4 inches of insulation and ecophon focus ceiling treatment and after in the whole living room;View attachment 312739

View attachment 312740
A word of advice. An impulse response or ETC needs to be shown for each speaker. It makes no sense to show only one unless they are exactly the same and something they almost never are. If this by any change was of both speakers, the measurement is invalid by the way.

Interestingly, the second graph shows some higher early gain reflections. If the graphs are correct, the treatment wasn't effective when some reflections rise that much in gain.
 

olieb

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The better the stereophonic reproduction system, the less trouble we have with room acoustics.
To take the room out of the equation for good sound reproduction in this way does not make much sense in my opinion.
 

Bjorn

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A dead room isn't as accurate as many think due to psychoacoustics. Few have heard the combination of accurate and lively, and generally don't know how that sounds.
 

JohnnyNG

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In the grand scheme of things, a 2" panel probably wouldn't do all that much for the frequencies that are really problematic. I had mine installed across the ceiling/wall interconnect. They were 5.5" thick panels. They did an amazing job at culling the floor/ceiling mode, but did nothing else. It was kind of bizarre, was like a helmholtz.
Thanks! Yeah, 2" is not much at all for bass modal issues but I was thinking more in terms of what the OP is about - "nasty cancellations around the crossover(s)". Amir sometimes recommends treating the ceiling bounce and I was thinking it may work for that in the 2-3kHz region.

I'm thinking a small panel (Moon) close to the speaker (you) can cover as great a ceiling area as a much larger panel (Sun) further away near the ceiling for this specific purpose.





moonsun.gif



The fact that it'd look mighty silly is a separate issue. :)
 

Music1969

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Given that almost all non-coaxial speakers have pretty nasty cancellations around the crossover(s
This part I quoted - what cancellations do you mean ? Can you give a specific example with a non coaxial speaker ?

Are you specifically talking about vertical directivity ?
 

fpitas

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A dead room is not a good room for audio reproduction perception... don't overtreat.

Taken from, Loudspeakers and Rooms for Sound Reproduction - A Scientific Review - Floyd E Toole

um7wk3gxow6ixxcnxj6s.png



JSmith
With all due respect, I heard Salon2s in JBL's flagship demo room before it got acoustic treatment. Even my GF scowled and said the clarity sucked. Later they installed substantial wall treatments. Much much better.
 
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olieb

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This part I quoted - what cancellations do you mean ? Can you give a specific example with a non coaxial speaker ?
My guess is, the OP refers to speakers like the KH120 II but you can find similar recommendations ("Absorb ceiling reflection") in many of Amir's reviews. The null in the ceiling reflection comes from a 180° phase difference between woofer and tweeter in this direction at crossover.

Neumann KH120 II Professional Monitor Speaker Active DSP early window frequency response measu...png
 
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