A cloud is the single most important acoustic treatment. Change my mind.

[Randyman...]

Our living room still has to look like a living room. If ever I get a treatable dedicated audio room I may consider this but I'll once again have to take the inevitable massive drop in sound quality in the meantime. That, to be honest, I don't feel I have.

WAF is always a thing. But if you can swing it - it is highly recommended. You can color-match with fabric from Guilford, or have GIK custom-build them.

 

[Galliardist]

WAF is always a thing. But if you can swing it - it is highly recommended. You can color-match with fabric from Guilford, or have GIK custom-build them.

In my case, it's Me Acceptance Factor. Also not allowed in our unit/apartment, so I'll still decline for now, thanks.

 

[Randyman...]

No problem! Totally understand. Most people don't fully appreciate what the room is doing to the sound. In the world of Audio Engineering/Recording, the importance is generally the song, the instrument, the room, then the mic, then the mix. The room ranks very high in the end result. Same goes for playback, but our ears/brain are very good at masking the room from the equation (mics, not so much). Above Schroeder, of course - our ears can't mask the issues below Schroeder! And a proper cloud can also be a descent bass absorber...

 

[Beave]

Yes, I totally agree that a cloud (or more than one) is key to good acoustics.

That's why I cut a huge hole in the ceiling of my apartment. I'm not sure what types of clouds were above, but the improvements in bass response and midrange clarity were immediately obvious both to me and to my landlord, who promptly evicted me.

Now I live on the street, just me and my stereo with nothing but clouds above, and the sound is just amazing.

 

[Randyman...]

Yes, I totally agree that a cloud (or more than one) is key to good acoustics.

That's why I cut a huge hole in the ceiling of my apartment. I'm not sure what types of clouds were above, but the improvements in bass response and midrange clarity were immediately obvious both to me and to my landlord, who promptly evicted me.

Now I live on the street, just me and my stereo with nothing but clouds above, and the sound is just amazing.

But you still have those pesky floor reflections to deal with

 

[Beave]

But you still have those pesky floor reflections to deal with

That's why I place my speakers over a sidewalk grate in my new outdoor living space!

 

[Randyman...]

That's why I place my speakers over a sidewalk grate in my new outdoor living space!

Poor Man's anechoic chamber

 

[Galliardist]

Becoming serious again... you'd all really help your case with measurements, and maybe also a few photos of your rooms and handywork for people to see the end results and what's involved.

 

[Randyman...]

I treated my small-ish listening room and large-ish studio over a decade ago (studio probably 15 years ago now) - so I don't have the before/after measurements. But the effects and studies of room acoustics and treatment are widely available. Check the studio forums - I use to frequent https://www.johnlsayers.com/ (a studio designer) , but it appears to be abandoned. Correction - it is still up, but not very active: https://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/index.php

In reality, treating room modes (below Schroeder) are where a listening room will really respond. Our ear/brain mechanism is an incredibly powerful "room eraser" regarding 1st reflections and such. But low frequency modes are clearly audible for us. Microphones "hear" in a MUCH different way - so studios benefit greatly from properly treated and well-designed recording rooms.

 

[Galliardist]

I treated my small-ish listening room and large-ish studio over a decade ago (studio probably 15 years ago now) - so I don't have the before/after measurements. But the effects and studies of room acoustics and treatment are widely available. Check the studio forums - I use to frequent https://www.johnlsayers.com/ (a studio designer) , but it appears to be abandoned. Correction - it is still up, but not very active: https://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/index.php

In reality, treating room modes (below Schroeder) are where a listening room will really respond. Our ear/brain mechanism is an incredibly powerful "room eraser" regarding 1st reflections and such. But low frequency modes are clearly audible for us. Microphones "hear" in a MUCH different way - so studios benefit greatly from properly treated and well-designed recording rooms.

Every single link on that site, for me goes to the website home page: which doesn't help us with your case at all.

 

[Randyman...]

Oops - Sorry. I found the Forum and thought it was still up. Anyway - peek around like I did many years ago. I haven't had to re-visit this topic since I was active on that site many moons ago. I'm in the same house and at the same studio using the same treatments.

I think it's hard to argue the effects of room acoustics/1st reflections and room modes on playback systems. Room Modes are the sole reason multiple subs and DBA's are even a thing today. And then, reflections that arrive before the 20-30mS window also smear transients and are perceived as one "sound" (we have a 20-30mS hearing window to perceive multiple sounds as one event - thus why 1st reflection points are the first recommended treatment).

If a speaker has poor vertical directivity - then the ceiling 1st reflections will likely be the best place to start...

 

[Hayabusa]

Or you could go for a line source speaker which generates much less ground and ceiling reflections

 

[Randyman...]

Or you could go for a line source speaker which generates much less ground and ceiling reflections

Agreed. However, some OC 703 and some fabric is probably cheaper

 

[tmtomh]

Becoming serious again... you'd all really help your case with measurements, and maybe also a few photos of your rooms and handywork for people to see the end results and what's involved.

You're right about measurements. In my case I don't have "before" measurements, and I'm not willing (at least not right now) to take down my ceiling panels to take such measurements. I am fortunate to have a dedicated listening space in a finished basement room, and in a happy accident, soffits required for house plumbing and such created a sort of minor vaulted ceiling effect that helps make the ceiling panels fit in unobtrusively. At any rate, here is a photo of the ceiling panels. (The primary listening position is at the bottom of the photo, next to the lefthand arm of the loveseat, right behind the ottoman with the laptop on it.) The room is about 16 feet wide and about 21 feet deep. The "vaulted" part of the ceiling is just under 9 feet.

Oh, and to be clear, I make no particular claims for the absorbers on the walls and in the corners. I'm just providing this photo to show what my ceiling panels look like.

 

[Prana Ferox]

Just remember that every silver lining has a touch of grey

 

[fpitas]

I agree. I have extensive ceiling absorption.

 

[Salt]

From speaker's view a MTM like D'Apolito or narrow but hight (Mid/)Tweeter (ribbon, AMT ...) may give reduced reflections from ground and ceiling. Had a good time with those from Newformresearch on top of a 6.5" woofer more than 20 years ago ... time ....

 

[Weeb Labs]

I agree. I have extensive ceiling absorption.

Likewise. There are fifteen 8" absorbers lining the ceiling of my office, which doubles as a HT. It is an extremely dead room and some dislike that but I love it.

 

[fpitas]

Likewise. There are fifteen 8" absorbers lining the ceiling of my office, which doubles as a HT. It is an extremely dead room and some dislike that but I love it.

I like a dead room, too. Always have. Don't say it too loud though. It's evidently not the Approved Way

 

[tmtomh]

I like a dead room, too. Always have. Don't say it too loud though. It's evidently not the Approved Way

I suspect my room would not be considered dead compared to a production studio, but I would guess most home listeners and audiophiles would consider it as such.