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A cloud is the single most important acoustic treatment. Change my mind.

dfuller

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Given that almost all non-coaxial speakers have pretty nasty cancellations around the crossover(s), it stands to reason that fairly heavy absorption hanging from the ceiling to heavily reduce the ceiling ER is much more important than any side wall or rear wall treatment, regardless of horizontal directivity behavior. Even with coaxial designs, I'd consider it quite important.

It is immediately audible hanging a cloud in a room that has a reflective ceiling - everything gets "tighter" and the soundstage becomes much clearer and less fuzzy.
 

middlemarch

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Sounds like a great idea, do you have an example of such a cloud, something family members might approve of?
 

Boss96

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I agree, I put one in my studio not expecting much but almost immediately heard a nice increase in clarity
 

SDC

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Cloud is really good. It saves space. Absorbs vertical errors and modes.

Only problem is how to hang such heavy thing up there...
 

Randyman...

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A few 2'x4' sheets of 4" 703 wrapped with Guilford of Maine fabric = easy peasy - and not that heavy. And yes - HUGE improvements in the mid/high focus. I agree this is likely more substantial than even treating 1st reflection points on the walls (severity of your particular room not withstanding). Likely more true for us poor saps with lower ceilings.

I can say for sure - ceiling clouds are a fantastic improvement for drum sounds as well - even with drum-rooms with higher ceilings. Right above my kit, I have a 12" deep 4' x 8' hard-topped cloud stuffed with pink fluffy, and it is effective all the way down to the upper bass. But that one weighs alot :) (hung approx 2' from the 11' concrete ceiling with eyelets and wire). Got some advice from John Sayer's forums for that one many years ago. It has been thoroughly enjoyed.
 

sam_adams

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Given that almost all non-coaxial speakers have pretty nasty cancellations around the crossover(s), it stands to reason that fairly heavy absorption hanging from the ceiling to heavily reduce the ceiling ER is much more important than any side wall or rear wall treatment, regardless of horizontal directivity behavior. Even with coaxial designs, I'd consider it quite important.

It is immediately audible hanging a cloud in a room that has a reflective ceiling - everything gets "tighter" and the soundstage becomes much clearer and less fuzzy.

Please provide before and after measurements to back up these assertions. Thanks.
 

IPunchCholla

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My ceiling is sheetrock over 9+inches of insulation... so would a simple dense barrier... say felt on top of acoustic absorbing substrate work?
 

Randyman...

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Please provide before and after measurements to back up these assertions. Thanks.
Even Amir recommends Clouds for speakers with vertical directivity issues (most traditional 2-ways). A proper cloud (2" with a gap, or 4" with or without a gap) will be much more effective than shag carpet (Amir recommends at least 2" carpet if you are hoping to control these floor reflections - no thanks!)
 

Alice of Old Vincennes

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I hope you're a recluse. My cat would commence legal proceedings. Why not mount a trampoline on the ceiling. I think it'll work.
 

tmtomh

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Treating 1st ceiling reflections for speakers with vertical directivity issues is crazy? :rolleyes: Lock me up! o_O

Plus - make them thick enough and have a gap - and you can get some bass absorption as well w/o taking up any floor space... Yup - totally crazy :facepalm:

I have two 2x4 foot absorbers on the ceiling of my listening room, centered L to R and roughly centered between the speakers and my listening position front to back. They're 5-6 inches thick and suspended 2-3 inches from the ceiling. I installed them when I first set up the space, long before I had a measurement mic and software, so I don't have before and after measurements. But it's easy to detect their effect, because if I have a conversation with anyone while standing or sitting under, or anywhere near, those absorbers, the reduction in ambience from our voices is significant.
 
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Randyman...

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My quote was specifically "Even Amir recommends Clouds for speakers with vertical directivity issues (most traditional 2-ways)." Nice of you to omit that :)

It is in one of his (forgot the exact review) videos, and often recommends floor(thick carpet)/ceiling treatments when his reviews show vertical directivity error.

1st reflection points on the walls are likely to be less of an issue with most speakers as the horizontal directivity is generally well-behaved by comparison. What is the counter-argument?
 

tmtomh

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Isn't @Randyman... referring to Amir's frequent recommendation in various speaker reviews to absorb floor and ceiling reflections because of vertical directivity issues from many non-coaxial speakers? If so, no citation would be necessary, as we've all read those reviews.

But perhaps I'm misunderstanding.

EDIT: I see Randyman just clarified as such.
 

Galliardist

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Our living room still has to look like a living room. If ever I get a treatable dedicated audio room I may consider this but I'll once again have to take the inevitable massive drop in sound quality in the meantime. That, to be honest, I don't feel I have.
 
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