2+1 system _ is this doable ?

[Chrispy]

it is the same thing If the subs are well designed and built you should not be able to locate them
i think that in particular the cabinet plays a key role It is very easy to check At some point the subs should seem not connected to the system
it is a very surprising sensation

i make an example Take a 2 ways You can have the woofer placed very far from the tweeter Like the woofer on the floor and the tweeter on the roof both pointing to the listening spot But the distance from the drivers and the listening spot must be the same
If not you have to delay the closer driver The signal from the different drivers must reach the listening spot at the same time

yes this is clear It can be seen in the test report
To get 100Hz with good SPLs and low distortion a 8" woofer is needed

Not particularly, a well designed and built sub placed poorly or crossed too high can be localizable. Multiple subs can help.

Sounds simply like a bad speaker.

Personally I consider an 8" driver in a sub as a waste of time.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Take a 2 ways You can have the woofer placed very far from the tweeter
Like the woofer on the floor and the tweeter on the roof both pointing to the listening spot

This is not a great idea.

 

[Chrispy]

it is the same thing If the subs are well designed and built you should not be able to locate them by ear The sound will come from the space around the speaker
i think that in particular the cabinet plays a key role It is very easy to check At some point the subs should seem not connected at all to the system
it is a very surprising sensation

i make an example Take a 2 ways You can have the woofer placed very far from the tweeter
Like the woofer on the floor and the tweeter on the roof both pointing to the listening spot
But the distance from the drivers and the listening spot must be the same
If not you have to add a delay the closer driver The signal emitted by different drivers must reach the listening spot at the same time

yes this is clear It can be seen in the test report

I think you're confusing woofers in a speaker with subwoofers? Subwoofers frequency range and room effects you might want to review the schroeder frequency....

 

[gino1961]

I think you're confusing woofers in a speaker with subwoofers? Subwoofers frequency range and room effects you might want to review the schroeder frequency....

Good morning and thanks for the very useful explanation
I started from a consideration. In some stereo systems I have seen a single sub used, for both channels not two i.e. one per channel
Ihave to say that i have been advised to use two actually
So it means that in its range the sub throws out a mono signal, no if anything obtained by adding the two L and R channels below a certain frequency
The question I was asking myself is up to what frequency can you use a sub without there being soundstage problems? 50 80 100 200Hz ?
you could test it with an electronic xover
If the limit is lets say 100Hz, i could use a single bass speaker in mono up to 100Hz and above that Hz two speakers in stereo as usual
a sort of biamping in which the bass is mono and the mid high is stereo
Some very small speakers that have no bass to speak of can throw out a great soundstage anyway
This should mean that below a certain Hz the signals do not contribute to the creation of the soundstage effect
But I don't know if it could work well And I have no way to test at present at least
The NHT XD system was something similar The single bass was working up to 100 Hz and the two small satellites above that
and the soundstage is said to be great

 

[Chrispy]

You keep describing a simple 2.1 system as offered by many avrs and pre-pros (with an active crossover between speakers/subs). Soundstage is particularly what was baked in the recording and how your speakers/room recreate it. Generally it's above typical subwoofer frequencies sounds about right, picking a particular number, meh. Maybe try these articles https://www.soundandvision.com/content/schroeder-frequency-show-and-tell-part-1

 

[gino1961]

You keep describing a simple 2.1 system as offered by many avrs and pre-pros (with an active crossover between speakers/subs). Soundstage is particularly what was baked in the recording and how your speakers/room recreate it. Generally it's above typical subwoofer frequencies sounds about right, picking a particular number, meh. Maybe try these articles https://www.soundandvision.com/content/schroeder-frequency-show-and-tell-part-1

hi sorry for the belated reply I have made up my mind Better a 2.2 system i.e. classic two identical channel
The hybrid mono bass + stereo above system it is too complicated and maybe it does not even work expecially when a good rendition of soundstage is a must
I would like to thank you all for your kind and very valuable advice
Have a nice day gino

 

[Chrispy]

hi sorry for the belated reply I have made up my mind Better a 2.2 system i.e. classic two identical channel
The hybrid mono bass + stereo above system it is too complicated and maybe it does not even work expecially when a good rendition of soundstage is a must
I would like to thank you all for your kind and very valuable advice
Have a nice day gino

Personally I wouldn't bother with "stereo" bass let alone placing subs only in the speakers' positions. You might want to review some of these threads on mono vs stereo bass https://duckduckgo.com/?q=stereo+subs+site:audiosciencereview.com&t=ffab&ia=web

 

[gino1961]

Personally I wouldn't bother with "stereo" bass let alone placing subs only in the speakers' positions. You might want to review some of these threads on mono vs stereo bass https://duckduckgo.com/?q=stereo+subs+site:audiosciencereview.com&t=ffab&ia=web

hi thank you very much for the very valuable advice
the curiosity started also by noticing that in some systems only one sub is used I guess that L and R signals below a certain Hz are mixed amplified and sent to the single driver But fwiu it is used to fill the dip in freq response in the very bass range

 

[Chrispy]

hi thank you very much for the very valuable advice
the curiosity started also by noticing that in some systems only one sub is used I guess that L and R signals below a certain Hz are mixed amplified and sent to the single driver But fwiu it is used to fill the dip in freq response in the very bass range

Typically if using a sub you are using a mono signal. Much vinyl has already got mono bass baked in. The sub can sum to mono if your amp/avr/pre-pro can't; avrs and pre-pros will sum it to mono for sub output (assuming no LFE, which is mono natively).

 

[gino1961]

Typically if using a sub you are using a mono signal.

Hi again this i very important I understand that the sub mono could be stretched up to 100Hz ? i mean without having negative impact on the soundstage rendition
This could allow to use just one big and powerful sub place dead in the center between the two satellites
Of good satellites able to cover the range 100Hz and up the world is full
To get powerful and low distortion 100Hz a good quality 8" woofer is needed i guess

Much vinyl has already got mono bass baked in.

if i had LPs i would digitalized them immediately and listen to the best .wav file i could get from them I tend to prefer 16/48 format, a very good compromise between sound quality and byte space
With a friend of mine we recorded one LP on a Dat many years ago ... for me the result was just perfect

The sub can sum to mono if your amp/avr/pre-pro can't; avrs and pre-pros will sum it to mono for sub output (assuming no LFE, which is mono natively).

Perfect and thank you very much again.
If they provide this feature there must be a very good reason.
However looking around this solution is not very popular among stereo lovers. Actually i have never seen it used.
Nevertheless using a big single sub could allow to use smaller satellites easier to place in the room .

 

[Chrispy]

Hi again this i very important I understand that the sub mono could be stretched up to 100Hz ? i mean without having negative impact on the soundstage rendition
This could allow to use just one big and powerful sub place dead in the center between the two satellites
Of good satellites able to cover the range 100Hz and up the world is full
To get powerful and low distortion 100Hz a good quality 8" woofer is needed i guess

if i had LPs i would digitalized them immediately and listen to the best .wav file i could get from them I tend to prefer 16/48 format, a very good compromise between sound quality and byte space
With a friend of mine we recorded one LP on a Dat many years ago ... for me the result was just perfect

Perfect and thank you very much again.
If they provide this feature there must be a very good reason.
However looking around this solution is not very popular among stereo lovers. Actually i have never seen it used.
Nevertheless using a big single sub could allow to use smaller satellites easier to place in the room .

My avrs allow crossover up to 250hz. 8" driver wouldn't be much of a sub let alone big and powerful.

Still would have mono bass even if you digitize such vinyl

Stereo lovers means what, guys who buy silly cables and put them on risers? Or just stuck in the past?

 

[gino1961]

My avrs allow crossover up to 250hz. 8" driver wouldn't be much of a sub let alone big and powerful.

Hi thanks again
I was referring to satellites
My reference are the Thd measurements in this great site
100hz need a 8" woofer for reproducing high spls peaks with low distribution

Still would have mono bass even if you digitize such vinyl

I don't listen to analog since long time

Stereo lovers means what, guys who buy silly cables and put them on risers? Or just stuck in the past?

You are right
I am shocked by the prices
They speak of speakers costing hundreds of thousands like this means nothing
I tend to like better pro speakers
They usually provide great drivers for less price than high end ones