Once you manage to perfect the design, I bet there are a lot of us who would love to try building it ourselves or even buy completed builds if someone were to sell them much less than the W371!
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Genelec W371A + The Ones : My quest for the Grail is over
- Thread starter Bernard 54
- Start date
For some reason I also can’t easily get over how wasteful this feels. The woofers in The Ones do such an amazing job, it feels like almost a shame for them to sit there and do nothing but take up space and resources if they were to be paired with a W371A.
If this is true though and the woofers literally aren’t used at all in The Ones when paired with a W371A, then suddenly the KEF LS50 Meta might become a lot more appealing if someone were to find a way to integrate it with a DIY cardioid setup
You could have a KEF LS50 Meta + cardioid woofer tower that comes very close to Genelec 8351B + W371A’s sound, but do so at approximately one tenth the price.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #64
No.
My available time was very short.
I was able to listen to the 8341A in 2.2 with the 7350A subwoofer (David's personal configuration). The set is already high level, but the 8341A does not have the same coaxial / tweeter as the 8351B and 8361A.
Then the 8361A in stereo.
And finally the 8361A / W371A ... another dimension ...
I don't care about you not trusting Dr. Goertz ( which is an insult to german engineering
), but what about Amir's NFS measurments, like the 8341A? Decent DC down to 500 Hz.One can also simulate stuff like this with very little afford with Boxsim.
Let's check like for like and see if it's a good match directivity wise.I don't care about you not trusting Dr. Goertz ( which is an insult to german engineering
One can also simulate stuff like this with very little afford with Boxsim.
From the source itself;
Looks like around 45 degrees dispersion up to 500 hz with the sub and that doesn't match with 8351 until above 1000 hz.
So in combining those speakers you get far more energy spread into the room between 500-1000 hz than anwhere else. To me that isn't desirable.
Personally I'd aim for consistency in directivity behaviour.
So, I don't understand the extreme hype.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #67
For some reason I also can’t easily get over how wasteful this feels. The woofers in The Ones do such an amazing job, it feels like almost a shame for them to sit there and do nothing but take up space and resources if they were to be paired with a W371A.
If this is true though and the woofers literally aren’t used at all in The Ones when paired with a W371A, then suddenly the KEF LS50 Meta might become a lot more appealing if someone were to find a way to integrate it with a DIY cardioid setup
By removing the tweeter and keeping the coaxial ... A future Franco / Finnish product :
The moment you separate out the tweeter form a coaxial mid/tweeter, I’m not sure it’s really coaxial any more... at this point isn’t it just a regular speaker?
Technically even offloading the 8351B woofers to the W371A makes it slightly less coaxial in terms of bass, though for those frequencies perhaps it matters less. However this does lead one to imagine a giant “coaxial” ring of ~12x 8” woofers lined up in a big circle around the 8351B (with corresponding rear facing woofers as well)
Technically even offloading the 8351B woofers to the W371A makes it slightly less coaxial in terms of bass, though for those frequencies perhaps it matters less. However this does lead one to imagine a giant “coaxial” ring of ~12x 8” woofers lined up in a big circle around the 8351B (with corresponding rear facing woofers as well)
Scale it up
http://www.hifi-forum.de/viewthread-104-21163-7.html#347
Got that wrong, sry. I see no point as I trust S&R and NFS measurments. True, not perfect CD with 110° @-6dB all the way down, but still better than anything else.
No matter what, Null Steering with GLM is the Number 1 feature, not the "stupid" CD mode. A+B mode (Multisub) is nice too, but can be done with almost all subs out there.
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As I read it when I was investigating the W371 it is GLM which helps you to decide the best frequency to cross over to the coaxial depending on the room and the mode you choose. It isn't guaranteed that 500Hz is optimum so not using the woofers in the "one" is not guaranteed.The moment you separate out the tweeter form a coaxial mid/tweeter, I’m not sure it’s really coaxial any more... at this point isn’t it just a regular speaker?
Technically even offloading the 8351B woofers to the W371A makes it slightly less coaxial in terms of bass, though for those frequencies perhaps it matters less. However this does lead one to imagine a giant “coaxial” ring of ~12x 8” woofers lined up in a big circle around the 8351B (with corresponding rear facing woofers as well)
It can be specified either to be cardioid or to fill in bass nulls - the reason the cabinet is tall and the drivers as far apart as possible.
My personal interest was more in the evening out the bass than the directivity.
In any case, it seems that when the sweeps are analysed and the user preference taken into account the crossover frequency to the W371 is one of the variables.
The two mode choices are outlined in this video
Ok that makes a lot of sense, and feels less wasteful
It would be really interesting to hear the difference between those modes (cardioid, vs what sounds like a mode where each W371 acts as two subwoofers which can be automatically individually tuned with GLM). I wonder if there are any showrooms in the USA with these set up.
khark
Member
I will probably try to get a demo once lockdown is eased.Ok that makes a lot of sense, and feels less wasteful
It would be really interesting to hear the difference between those modes (cardioid, vs what sounds like a mode where each W371 acts as two subwoofers which can be automatically individually tuned with GLM). I wonder if there are any showrooms in the USA with these set up.
I want to hear what all the thorough engineering does, compared to my old kit tuned by positioning
Frank I wrote to Matthew Fletcher at HHB on Friday, I would want to bring my measurement mic,
BW Keith
BW Keith
You're supposed to use the monitor's vertical directivity here, as the Ones should be laid on their side on the W371A. Which would be one reason the use the 8361A, as it controls the directivity in a way that matches the W371, here. The 8351A was better than the B in that regard, too.
By the way, beware the different vertical scales on your graphs.
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It is the 8351B I would choose to go with the W371 personally.
The 8361 doesn't seem to offer anything extra for much more money and ugliness when combined with the W371. Its max loudness spec is higher than the 8351 but I think that is an average including bass, and since they both have the same size mid driver and amp I don't imagine there is a real difference if one has the W371.
The normal 8351B/8361A crossover is 320hz. So even if you set the W371A's crossover at 250hz or something, which you can certainly do, the woofer is still not doing much work. The 8351B also has incrementally better performance above 320hz in terms of flatness and directivity smoothness.
In practice I suspect the most audible difference would be tweeter height, especially if you leave the 8361A standing upright. Horizontally placed it would stick out over the sides and look rather odd.
It would be pretty interesting to get measurements of the whole tower construct to see what the complete directivity actually looks like, as we can only really guess from the isolated charts. So, I guess somebody who's bought these, please send one to Amir
This is really interesting, is there a thread or something somewhere to follow reports on your work?
In practice I suspect the most audible difference would be tweeter height, especially if you leave the 8361A standing upright. Horizontally placed it would stick out over the sides and look rather odd.
It would be pretty interesting to get measurements of the whole tower construct to see what the complete directivity actually looks like, as we can only really guess from the isolated charts. So, I guess somebody who's bought these, please send one to Amir
This is really interesting, is there a thread or something somewhere to follow reports on your work?
We are working more or less in the dark. Some information will be posted in german DIY-Hifi-Forum. If the others agree, I will open a thread here too.
PS: Thinking about taking the project to Open Source Platform Projects at ASR.
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