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Genelec W371A + The Ones : My quest for the Grail is over

Sparky

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Says who?

To be clear, the traditional reason for tweeter height being narrowly restricted is because normal loudspeaker designs have absolutely terrible vertical directivity. This isn't an issue with a near-perfect coaxial. All of these Genelecs sound absolutely identical regardless of your ear height. I know, I own them, they sound exactly the same whether you are lying on the ground, standing up, or sitting down.

Would you say the 8351 and 8350 are ca completely different listening experience?
 

Frgirard

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Says who?

To be clear, the traditional reason for tweeter height being narrowly restricted is because normal loudspeaker designs have absolutely terrible vertical directivity. This isn't an issue with a near-perfect coaxial. All of these Genelecs sound absolutely identical regardless of your ear height. I know, I own them, they sound exactly the same whether you are lying on the ground, standing up, or sitting down.

the directivity diagram seems to be disagree:eek:
 
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Bernard 54

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it's a problem.

Did you prefer listen your room or your speakers ? the acoustics issues are not a spl issue

I was actually not precise in my answer.

First of all, I am fully aware of the importance of the treatment of the room in this type of project.
In 2021 and 2022, I am focusing on the speakers and insulation of my house (windows, walls, etc ...).
The interior renovation and the acoustics of my living room will come after.
Until then, I will benefit from a solution that will not be 100% optimal, but which, like ;)good French wine;), can only improve over time.
And that I could possibly adapt in other premises if necessary.

Regarding the listening position, I plan a maximum distance of 3 m which I will reduce if necessary.
The critical distance (linked to the frequency range between 200 and 4000 Hz) of the 8351B is of the order of 2.6 m and depends of course on the volume and the acoustics of the room : https://www.genelec.com/correct-monitors
I think the W371A has an impact on this critical distance. Could the data be communicated by GENELEC ? I believe this question has been asked in a forum before, but I don't remember seeing the answer
Anyway, this is not an absolute requirement .
 

richard12511

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the ears must be at the height to the acoustical axis of the speaker or the acoustical axis oriented towards the head the axis crossing slightly behind the head

I had my 8351s dead on at my listening position ear height. A few months ago, I raised them up 4 inches or so, and the sound is much more realistic now. My ears are now 4" below the acoustical axis, but it sound better now than it did before. To be clear, the sound hasn't changed, but the location of where the perceived sound comes from has.
 

Sancus

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Would you say the 8351 and 8350 are ca completely different listening experience?

Don't know for sure, never heard the 8350A. Just from the measurements though, I doubt it if you're sitting in the sweet spot. The 8351B is an incremental improvement in most ways. The only big difference is the vertical directivity, which is obviously far better. You won't get the "sound is the same no matter where you are sitting/standing in the room" effect from an 8350A. The 8351B also probably play somewhat cleaner especially in the midrange due to lack of IMD, but hard to say how audible that is. I would tell most people that they probably shouldn't pay the extra $1600/speaker for the 8351B. If you understand the differences, have the budget, and want the best even though you know it's not the best *value*, then buy the 8351B.

the directivity diagram seems to be disagree:eek:

Not sure you are reading these correctly. The 8351B vertical directivity shows excellent, even dispersion without even much SPL loss until +/- 50 degrees up or down, and unless you are right next to the speaker that will cover all practical listening angles.
 

AdamG

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So how much are we talking about here is USD? Pricing seems difficult to find. Mostly getting pricing upon request. Which means I can’t afford it anyway .:oops:
 
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Bernard 54

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This subject has already been addressed in various posts, but I have tried to summarize the 100% digital Sources> Genelec connection modes that I have preselected for my future configuration :

1) Great Britain: https://www.studiospares.com/studiospares-red507-toslink-spdif--aesebu-converter_465760.htm
This economical solution (35 £ VAT included) would allow the following direct connection LG OLED> Cable TOSLINK> NODE2I> Cable TOSLINK> RED507> Cable AES-EBU / AES-EBU> W371A
The order would be done directly on the NODE2I smartphone application.
The downside might be the length of the circuit between the OLED and the W371, with an increased risk of microcuts (this being my microcuts on my amp have also been observed with the NODE2I) ??

2) USA: https://hosatech.com/products/digital-audio/s-pdif-interfaces/odl-312/
Unless I am mistaken, the HOSA box is the same as the previous one. The only differences seem to be the color Blue and… the price $ 193.70. Hope VAT is included ...

3) Austria: https://www.tindie.com/products/beni_sk ... rod_search
This solution allows the following direct connection LG OLED / NODE2I> Cables TOSLINK / TOSLINK> Automatic SPDIF (Optical / RCA) Audio Switch> Cable RCA / AES-EBU> W371A
The price is $ 84 and allows multiple TOSLINK entries. The outputs are RCA and require an RCA / AES-EBU cable

Of course, I hesitate between options 1 and 3, on the probable quality of the boxes and the risks of alteration of the digital signal.
I can schedule the delivery of the two boxes just before that of the speakers and do the comparative test.
Or maybe a fourth option ??

Your opinions are welcome.
 
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mkt

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So how much are we talking about here is USD? Pricing seems difficult to find. Mostly getting pricing upon request. Which means I can’t afford it anyway .:oops:
@FranzM's number, list price at https://vintageking.com w/o tax
1620510722464.png
 

Bear123

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The subwoofer pricing is really stupid. Amazing subs available for far less than half or even 1/4th the price of the 371A, using the best quality drivers made. I think there is nothing wrong with paying a premium for exceptional quality such as with the speakers, but the subs are WAY out of line. I can't see the justification.

As an example, one of the best measuring raw drivers ever tested on Data-Bass can be bought for around $700: Better than Genelec. Fantastic/SOTA amps are available at reasonable prices, and a rectangular box doesn't cost much either. $9,000???
 

AdamG

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echopraxia

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The subwoofer pricing is really stupid. Amazing subs available for far less than half or even 1/4th the price of the 371A, using the best quality drivers made. I think there is nothing wrong with paying a premium for exceptional quality such as with the speakers, but the subs are WAY out of line. I can't see the justification.

As an example, one of the best measuring raw drivers ever tested on Data-Bass can be bought for around $700: Better than Genelec. Fantastic/SOTA amps are available at reasonable prices, and a rectangular box doesn't cost much either. $9,000???
The Genelec W371A are not really subs nor do they even try to compete with them. What makes them special is not that they play bass loud (and note that they don’t even go as deep as Genelec’s own subs); it’s that they achieve a constant directivity down to far lower frequencies than any traditional sub can achieve.

I have not heard the W371A myself, but in theory they should be able to achieve a bass quality and consistency I doubt any traditional subwoofer setup could really rival.

Yeah you could likely build a W371A clone for a fraction of the cost, but to get it right would be harder than just building it physically and with high quality components: I expect a lot of the magic that achieves the constant directivity is via their DSP software. Not that it would be impossible to replicate, but it would take probably a lot of work and testing with expensive equipment like the Klippell.
 
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echopraxia

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Don't know for sure, never heard the 8350A. Just from the measurements though, I doubt it if you're sitting in the sweet spot. The 8351B is an incremental improvement in most ways. The only big difference is the vertical directivity, which is obviously far better. You won't get the "sound is the same no matter where you are sitting/standing in the room" effect from an 8350A. The 8351B also probably play somewhat cleaner especially in the midrange due to lack of IMD, but hard to say how audible that is.
So I did compare my 8351B to the 8330C’s side by side at one point, and just like you I expected the difference would be marginal. I was actually quite surprised that even when both are GLM calibrated to the listening position and integrated with the same GLM sub, the 8351B’s are significantly better to my ear. Granted, they both do sound very very similar in tonality. But the 8351B midrange was noticeably more clear and clean, especially if I pushed them to high levels with comped energetic music. The treble is smoother on the 8351B, though of course both are great.

This was with both set on my desk. I’m not sure if it would be different if they were on stands. As expected, the effect where you can walk anywhere in the room and have the same exact sound (not counting bass) only applies to the coaxial 8351B’s.

Would you say the 8351 and 8350 are ca completely different listening experience?
TLDR: They’re not a completely different experience, but the 8351B sound quality is indeed significantly better. But yes we are in diminishing returns territory here, even though I was surprised to find the 8351B sound noticeably more enjoyable than my 8330C I compared it to (with a Genelec subwoofer integrated in each case).
 
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AdamG

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The Genelec W371A are not really subs nor do they even try to compete with them. What makes them special is not that they play bass loud (and note that they don’t even go as deep as Genelec’s own subs); it’s that they achieve a constant directivity down to far lower frequencies than any traditional sub can achieve.

I have not heard the W371A myself, but in theory they should be able to achieve a bass quality and consistency I doubt any traditional subwoofer setup could really rival.
What do you consider a traditional sub? Any Frequency Response Graphs for these not really sub subs?

Please explain what you mean by the Genelec W371A don’t go as deep as Genelec’s own Subs?

You say that the W371A are not really subs nor do they even try to compare with them. But they list them as Subs right? Just trying to understand what your saying here, not being a smart ass.
 

echopraxia

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it's a problem.

Did you prefer listen your room or your speakers ? the acoustics issues are not a spl issue
What in the world are you talking about? On what grounds do you pretend to be able to say listening to these at 3 meters “is a problem”? 8351/8361 combined with W371A’s should be more than capable of filling far larger rooms and at far greater listening distances than that of the OP.

It’s not a problem. @Bernard 54 is going to have an amazing setup!
 
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