• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Synergistic Research apparently at "war" against Gene from Audioholics

Status
Not open for further replies.

mhardy6647

Grand Contributor
Joined
Dec 12, 2019
Messages
11,403
Likes
24,741
I always wonder whether those to the next level improvements are perceived as linear or exponential by the listener. You know: is it a 3% improvement that's jaw dropping, or is it 3 orders of magnitude? :)
 

MattHooper

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 27, 2019
Messages
7,329
Likes
12,286
I always wonder whether those to the next level improvements are perceived as linear or exponential by the listener. You know: is it a 3% improvement that's jaw dropping, or is it 3 orders of magnitude? :)

What amazes me are the audiophiles (e.g.on audiogon) who use every tweak in the book, upgraded power cable, cable risers, new AC outlets, power conditioner, audiophile fuses in their amps, footers under their components and on and on. And with every tweak there is a reported lowering of noise floor and removing of a veil. It's as if audiophiles systems have a virtually unlimited dynamic range and audiophiles have hearing with no limits, able to hear "lowering noise floors" into infinity. I have a feeling some of these audiophiles will have improved their acuity to such a degree they'll become bothered by the background radiation from the Big Bang. Luckily, there'll be a product to help with that :)
 

mhardy6647

Grand Contributor
Joined
Dec 12, 2019
Messages
11,403
Likes
24,741
What amazes me are the audiophiles (e.g.on audiogon) who use every tweak in the book, upgraded power cable, cable risers, new AC outlets, power conditioner, audiophile fuses in their amps, footers under their components and on and on. And with every tweak there is a reported lowering of noise floor and removing of a veil. It's as if audiophiles systems have a virtually unlimited dynamic range and audiophiles have hearing with no limits, able to hear "lowering noise floors" into infinity. I have a feeling some of these audiophiles will have improved their acuity to such a degree they'll become bothered by the background radiation from the Big Bang. Luckily, there'll be a product to help with that :)
It's like the old joke about the old J.C. Whitney catalogs for gearheads back in the '60s and '70s. If you bought all of their wacky car tweaks and installed 'em all, your old jalopy would do zero to 60 in 0.3 seconds and get 12,000 miles per gallon! ;)

1620172209952.png
 
Last edited:

MattHooper

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 27, 2019
Messages
7,329
Likes
12,286
I thought I'd heard everything but "footers breaking in"? really? That's a mind bending level of delusion.

Oh yeah, I've seen audiophiles talking about footers and their AV racks "breaking in" for a long time.

In a way it isn't surprising. Once you are using a purely subjective paradigm where imagination can reign, there's really no limit. Same as your local psychic fair/crystal healing convention.
 

Blaspheme

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2021
Messages
461
Likes
515
What amazes me are the audiophiles (e.g.on audiogon) who use every tweak in the book, upgraded power cable, cable risers, new AC outlets, power conditioner, audiophile fuses in their amps, footers under their components and on and on. And with every tweak there is a reported lowering of noise floor and removing of a veil. It's as if audiophiles systems have a virtually unlimited dynamic range and audiophiles have hearing with no limits, able to hear "lowering noise floors" into infinity. I have a feeling some of these audiophiles will have improved their acuity to such a degree they'll become bothered by the background radiation from the Big Bang. Luckily, there'll be a product to help with that :)
Haha, have you met fractals?
 

DonH56

Master Contributor
Technical Expert
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 15, 2016
Messages
7,897
Likes
16,715
Location
Monument, CO
I know, I’m sorry, I just don’t like to see people take advantage is all, we have enough of that lately. I’m tired of the Ted Denny battles, just want him to prove us all right or wrong and end it all...

NP, yours is the post many would have liked to have made...
 

David Harper

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2019
Messages
359
Likes
434
Stereophile may have banned me. Last time I tried to post I got a message that said my post was "being reviewed" by the moderator
and it never did appear in the comments thread. It was a comment about speakers that cost $320,000.
 

Blaspheme

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2021
Messages
461
Likes
515
Stereophile may have banned me. Last time I tried to post I got a message that said my post was "being reviewed" by the moderator
and it never did appear in the comments thread. It was a comment about speakers that cost $320,000.
Review is normal terminology for a moderated comment system, I wouldn't read anything else into that descriptor. I can see your "keeper" joke there (under the XVX review) but that may or may not have been the post you were referring to? I don't generally like WAF references, but I did get a chuckle out of that one.
 
Last edited:

Tranquility Bass

Member
Audio Company
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 22, 2020
Messages
97
Likes
144
Location
Australia
I asked Ted Denny twice about his education background on his facebook page and the first time he came back with this.

"I started SR in 1992. So nearly 30 years as a now leading audio designer. What is your background keyboard warrior and what has been your experience with SR products?"

Then the second time I asked him, he blocked me on facebook. Seems he has no relevant education background which would explain these ridiculous patents that I dug up after he was boasting about them. I also asked him about the patent numbers and there was no reply. Seems he wants to boast about having patents but does not want too much scrutiny. Also I noticed that all of his youtube videos have comments disabled ;)

It seems the cowboys have taken over this industry by peddling myths and snake oil remedies to audio problems that don't really exist. Once upon a time only the best and brightest got to publish a paper in the AES and now it doesn't seem to mean too much these days. The industry has gone backwards since then :(

cheers

https://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2009/0140580.html

https://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2011/0170720.html

https://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2015/0104040.html
 

Mart68

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 22, 2021
Messages
2,664
Likes
5,002
Location
England
I remember as a child about 80% of the kids in my school either struggled to understand things scientific or just didn't like it.
That meant that, at best, 20% of us had a grounding which may let us understand this sort of thing from first principles.
That 80% is his market, and it is a lot of people.

I didn't do any science after 'O' level but I still don't waste money on products that do nothing. I don't think this is a question of lack of education.

You can talk to people who buy this stuff. You can explain why it can't change the sound. You can point them to blind tests where no-one is able to tell the difference. They will tell you that regardless they have heard the difference, So you point them to 100 years of research into psycho-acoustics and explain that we can and often will perceive a difference when in fact there is no change.

None of this will make any difference. They will reject everything you tell them out of hand and then - if this exchange takes place on the internet - become personally insulting.

So I say let them waste their money, don't feel bad or angry about it, no-one is being taken advantage of here. As the man says in the video, it's keeping people in jobs.
 

gene_stl

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 14, 2019
Messages
867
Likes
1,200
Location
St.Louis , Missouri , U.S.A.
I looked at those patent abstracts and it took me about three seconds to click to the next one. Complete bullshit. It is amazing that you actually can get patents on crap like that. Of course a patent is not really a patent until it has been successfully defended in court. That would be a case to be on the jury of. One snake oil peddler trying to say that another copped his licks.

The reason I looked in the first place was that I thought they might be "Design Patents" which are less technical. But no they are regular patents. I guess anyone with about $10,000 to invest can get a patent number for anything.
 

BluesDaddy

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2019
Messages
342
Likes
497
I didn't do any science after 'O' level but I still don't waste money on products that do nothing. I don't think this is a question of lack of education.

You can talk to people who buy this stuff. You can explain why it can't change the sound. You can point them to blind tests where no-one is able to tell the difference. They will tell you that regardless they have heard the difference, So you point them to 100 years of research into psycho-acoustics and explain that we can and often will perceive a difference when in fact there is no change.

None of this will make any difference. They will reject everything you tell them out of hand and then - if this exchange takes place on the internet - become personally insulting.

So I say let them waste their money, don't feel bad or angry about it, no-one is being taken advantage of here. As the man says in the video, it's keeping people in jobs.
I wasn't a wiz in science - indulged too much in contraband my last couple years of HS and first couple of college. But I was reared on Audio and Stereo Review in the late 60s and through the 70s. Can't remember when Audio went under, but I had a subscription to SR until it became little more than an advertising vehicle. Since the 90s, rags like TAS and Stereophiles seem to have dominated the audiophile market and then transitioned over to the Internet. At the very least their perspective on audio seems to inculcated the succeeding generations of audiophiles with their audiophoolery and paved the way for the SRs of the industry.
 

gene_stl

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 14, 2019
Messages
867
Likes
1,200
Location
St.Louis , Missouri , U.S.A.
Clearly, you have never met a patent examiner.
No, I have not, but I used to have to look at medical equipment patents every once in a while and although I have to admit to being surprised in this particular instance , I did know that your $10K or whatever the price is or was would usually get you a patent.
Remember Albert Einstein was a patent examiner before he got famous.:rolleyes::cool:
 

KSTR

Major Contributor
Joined
Sep 6, 2018
Messages
2,776
Likes
6,212
Location
Berlin, Germany
As far as I could see, those were patent applications only. You can file anything for application. While it is true that US patent law is, well, substandard wrt requirements for a successful assertion there still is a red line there.
 

mansr

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 5, 2018
Messages
4,685
Likes
10,705
Location
Hampshire
No, I have not, but I used to have to look at medical equipment patents every once in a while and although I have to admit to being surprised in this particular instance , I did know that your $10K or whatever the price is or was would usually get you a patent.
Remember Albert Einstein was a patent examiner before he got famous.:rolleyes::cool:
Some patents are obviously good, and some examiners are presumably competent. However, there are enough incompetent ones that getting a nonsensical patent approved is trivial.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom