Legal fund for Reviewers/Erin?

[Deleted member 27254]

One thing is an extensive review, one thing is an opinion or a mere statement on Amazon. You might be not allowed to extensively review and test items if this is not the intended use of that good. The Mfr produces and sells ONLY for the intended use and of course you can make opinions about that item "like, not like", but you might be misusing when nothing but testing publicly.

For your own good, please stop holding forth on what you think the law is here. You're only beclowning yourself. Maybe things are different in Germany, but here in the U.S. there exist none of the restrictions that you claim shackle honest reviewers. Excluding slander or libel, which are narrowly defined, we may say highly subjective, even willfully offensive things about any product; and we are most certainly free to take interior and exterior photos from any angle and publish them.

To suggest that this isn't so shows a profound, risible lack of knowledge of the First Amendment and the way it is practiced in the U.S. literally millions of times every day.

 

[Ajax]

I was talking about avoiding litigation, not what to do during litigation.

So am I by requesting Tekton prove that they have suffered hardship before going any further.

Again, not a lawyer, however, I have had a lot of experience with contract law in construction disputes. My understanding is that there is a lot of onus on the claimant to show they/he is not being frivolous. You can make life very difficult and create a lot of work for Tekton before you need to spend any money yourself by insisting they substantiate their claim.

e..g.
1. prove that the review by Erin was conducted in a non professional (non scientific) manner and
2. itemise their losses.

A simple one page letter can stop them in their tracks and give them cause to re-evaluate their cause of action.

 

[Duke]

they could easily have glued a block of MDF w/ a drilled recess above the hole, sealing the cabinet, while providing a gap for any feet. Might add 5 cents to costs.

This still would have limited the length of the screw or bolt used to 3/4", assuming that's the thickness of the bottom board. And if the preferred flange-on-the-inside type of threaded insert is used, then that inner block needs to be machined to allow space for the flange part of the threaded insert. And the backing block has to be glued in place after the threaded insert is installed. Every time you have to handle the piece costs money, and that's multiple extra steps... a lot more than five cents at US wages.

Lets measure them with the holes closed and lets see what happens. Where is the problem? I dont think it will make a big difference. To much waves for nothing this will end bad for tektons reputation.

I don't expect it to make much difference at normal listening levels. Once the sound pressure levels are high enough that air turbulence in the teeny-tiny screw holes prevents them from behaving like ports, they will act as barriers instead of openings. [EDIT: Apparently this IS a more significant issue than I thought; see post number 334 just below by @ROOSKIE.]

 

[ROOSKIE]

I can see Tekton's feet attachment method making sense. Let me explain:

To attach a removable foot, you can have a threaded insert in the cabinet with a hole that goes only partway through bottom of the cabinet, or you can have a threaded insert with a hole that goes all the way through the bottom of the cabinet. The latter allows the use of a stronger type of threaded insert. (And yes, I realize there are other possibilities.)

If the hole only goes partway through the bottom of the cabinet, your choices of feet are limited to feet with posts that do not "bottom out" against the material beyond the end of the hole. But the cabinet is airtight without the feet being installed.

If the hole goes through-and-through, not only do you have a wider range of feet choices, but you also probably have a stronger attachment for the feet. And if you wanted to bolt the speaker to the top of a stand so that it couldn't be toppled off the stand, the through-and-through hole configuration makes that simpler (you don't need to get the bolt length exactly right) and probably more secure (the kind of threaded insert that has a metal "lip" on the inside of the cabinet is much stronger than the kind that merely relies on teeth that grab into the sides of the hole for the threaded insert.)

This has nothing to do with the primary issue this thread is about, but imo the foot attachment method is not something Tekton "got wrong".

Yes, having a hole all the way through is fine as long as the buyer knows they need to be plugged.
The feet look terrible to me(even given the speakers fugly style) and many, many stands would not be large enough for all 4 fixed feet locations to be on the stands top.
Listening it was obvious something was wrong as each hole chuffed with certain notes. But it still took me awhile to figure it out and had to buy threaded inserts for a flush seal.

100% my thought at the time was the 'manual' should state these holes need to be plugged and they definetly should also include threaded inserts with Allen heads for a hidden look.
With my typical DIY approach I figured it out and was fine. But many buyers could not.

I see alot of pictures of Tekton brand monitors not being used with the feet. Are folks not hearing the noises?

Fwiiw the Impact Monitors sound pretty good(and measure well). I really was curious. I'm not keeping them much longer but they were fun to try and outside of the holes very well built for the money. (yes fugly but kinda cool looking too)

 

[teched58]

Sorry to see this happen to Erin.
I watched the review and did not think it would lead to this.
I think paying an attorney to deal with this would help Erin a lot mentally.
I have litigated a few thousand cases and just getting an attorney involved will probably stop this matter from ending up in court.
Reading posts from non-attorneys on the law is bemusing.
Reading posts from everyone wanting to help Erin is heartwarming.
Let’s help him get an attorney to deal with this in pre-litigation.
He should avoid communication with the other party or their attorney.
Count me in to support this righteous cause.

It's always amusing when the many IANALs think that their common sense is a reliable guide to how the law works, or should work, and what the law is. HINT: What you THINK the law is, or how you think it works or should work, is non-pertinent to any legal discussion.

As non-lawyers, you have no standing to comment. (Much like Eric Alexander has no standing to comment on the work of real EEs.)

So please sit down.

 

[Deleted member 27254]

I just read 18 pages of comments that are, in the aggregate, pretty frustrating. Here's why: It's almost all heat, and very little light.

Because Erin pulled his review, we're no longer privy to the claims he made about the Tekton speakers. And because we can no longer see and assess what Eric Alexander allegedly wrote in response, the same is true for that part of this erupting feud.

Until that information is shared, we're all groping around in the dark. None of us can reasonably go further than making a statement supporting the right of any reviewer to say and write exactly what s/he wants (except for things that amount to outright and deliberate untruths, or to slander or libel). And that I will do without reservation.

Beyond that, I'll wait for the facts, preferably in the form of Erin's original, unedited video review, plus screenshots of any subsequent exchange between Tekton and Erin.

 

[tomtoo]

This still would have limited the length of the screw or bolt used to 3/4", assuming that's the thickness of the bottom board. And if the preferred flange-on-the-inside type of threaded insert is used, then that inner block needs to be machined to allow space for flange part of the threaded insert. And the backing block has to be glued in place after the threaded insert is installed. Every time you have to handle the piece costs money, and that's multiple extra steps... a lot more than five cents at US wages.



I don't expect it to make much difference at normal listening levels. Once the sound pressure levels are high enough that air turbulence in the teeny-tiny screw holes prevents them from behaving like ports, they will act as barriers instead of openings. [EDIT: Apparently this IS a more significant issue than I thought; see post number 334 just below by @ROOSKIE.]

Thx i did read, can imagine some noise. Lets measure! At the end this all could end so easy. CloSe the holes measure again.

 

[daniboun]

Interesting review about the Tekton Double Impact Be.....Lots of sophistication for an average result.....

Tekton Double Impact Be vs. Focal Sopra No.3

A True Contest

fromwhatihear.substack.com

 

[ta240]

I still not sure about the bottom of the issue, what exactly is the Mfr expecting or requiring from Erin and how is this covered by law?

There are people that feel powerful by threatening legal action. Since average people don't have an attorney on retainer the idea of dealing with something like that is not pleasant. Even when you are in the right it can be costly and stressful to prove that. It probably works a lot of the time to get what he wants. It is his version of "I WANT TO SPEAK TO YOUR MANAGER!!!"

Typically, you just don't want to encounter someone like this that is also an attorney. Then their time is much cheaper and the pleasure they get out of it would likely make it more than fulfilling enough for them.

It's definitely not being used for promotion. Whether a lawsuit has actually emerged, I do not know, but this isn't the first time Tekton's designer has threatened a reviewer with litigation.

(Edited because my initial tone sounded more argumentative than I meant it to be!).

I can't imagine Erin wanting to go through any of this but he already seems very personable and this will likely just make more people like him as an underdog. Remember when the Audioholics guy got covid and made something like $35,000 from his "things are tuff for guys with 2 theater rooms and a BMW right now" video.

For the Tekton guy I think any of the other options would have been better. He could have gone with any of: "I'll use this information to improve the speaker in future versions" or "You were missing the feet, if I send you some will you retest it?" and even "I don't design for measurements, I design for listening pleasure and lots of people love listening to this speaker".

 

[Ninjastar]

I just read 18 pages of comments that are, in the aggregate, pretty frustrating. Here's why: It's almost all heat, and very little light.

Because Erin pulled his review, we're no longer privy to the claims he made about the Tekton speakers. And because we can no longer see and assess what Eric Alexander allegedly wrote in response, the same is true for that part of this erupting feud.

Until that information is shared, we're all groping around in the dark. None of us can reasonably go further than making a statement supporting the right of any reviewer to say and write exactly what s/he wants (except for things that amount to outright and deliberate untruths, or to slander or libel). And that I will do without reservation.

Beyond that, I'll wait for the facts, preferably in the form of Erin's original, unedited video review, plus screenshots of any subsequent exchange between Tekton and Erin.

I watched the original review. Nothing Erin said there was inflammatory or with malice. He simply pointed to a part of the frequency response measured by the Klippel NFS, which showed the speaker can be a little bright sounding confirming his subjective listening impressions. But the review was overall fairly positive.

Apparently, Eric/Tekton took great umbrage to this, responded in the comment section (I'm paraphrasing), "Tekton doesn't do bright sound...We highly disagree with the review" and then called into question the legitimacy of Erin's measurements. And apparently, he communicated to Erin that the speakers were designed to have footers screwed in or they won't sound as he intended so Erin pulled the reviews from his website and YouTube page.

Other than that, not sure what was communicated directly from Tekton to Erin, but we can assume there was mention of possibly pursuing legal action against Erin because he is seeking legal advice now.

 

[holdingpants01]

I just read 18 pages of comments that are, in the aggregate, pretty frustrating. Here's why: It's almost all heat, and very little light.

Because Erin pulled his review, we're no longer privy to the claims he made about the Tekton speakers. And because we can no longer see and assess what Eric Alexander allegedly wrote in response, the same is true for that part of this erupting feud.

Until that information is shared, we're all groping around in the dark. None of us can reasonably go further than making a statement supporting the right of any reviewer to say and write exactly what s/he wants (except for things that amount to outright and deliberate untruths, or to slander or libel). And that I will do without reservation.

Beyond that, I'll wait for the facts, preferably in the form of Erin's original, unedited video review, plus screenshots of any subsequent exchange between Tekton and Erin.

I can send you the written review from his website and there are screenshots of what Eric commented under the video

 

[NDRQ]

Another kind of help is to publish his review here, so the review can reach more people.
Also an option to boycott the company because of their behaviour. There are many ood company out there, no problem is a sht one goes bankrupt.

 

[holdingpants01]

Another kind of help is to publish his review here, so the review can reach more people.

I don't think that would help Erin, but just let me know and I'll send it to anyone interested

 

[DearSX]

Total BS from Tekton! I support measuments even when its speakers I purchased that don't perform to expectations. Plenty of subjective reviews out there that are bogus.

 

[pseudoid]

Have you considered writing a book about the whole audio-industry, the goods, the bads, the funnies and the sads.
Your perspective of the state-of-the-industry would get much attention from all sides of the audio 'spectrum'.

I'll shut-up now.

This going to be my second request to @amirm to write that book, already!

 

[Ron Texas]

Interesting review about the Tekton Double Impact Be.....Lots of sophistication for an average result.....

Tekton Double Impact Be vs. Focal Sopra No.3

A True Contest

fromwhatihear.substack.com

This guy needs to buy a calibrated microphone and learn to use REW.

 

[McFly]

The owner of Tekton has broken ears, and a broken moral compass.

He needs to find another lane, hi-fi aint it chief.

And Amir, even with your past dealings with Erin, your offer of generosity here is not lost on me. You're alright.

 

[NDRQ]

I don't think that would help Erin, but just let me know and I'll send it to anyone interested

I mean, if the review is deleted, then the Tekton achieved what they wanted and won.

 

[CaptainTuttle]

If Eric Alexander's beef is based on measurements about a product, a potential lawsuit would be a form of trade libel, not defamation. The cause of action requires an intent to disparage. If the measurements are objective -- i.e., not meant to create false results -- there is no basis for a claim.

 

[doug s.]

Amir, been a big fan/admirer of your work.
Your dedication to the cause is unwavering and you continue to surprise.

Happy to contribute.

By the way, a high end dac for the lawyer member may not work.... we know "high end" usually means poor performance

Your last sentence is total bullshit. It usually means good performance, but overpriced. You don't want to get sued, do you?

doug s