Topping D70 Pro Sabre DAC Review

[guyboisvert]

How can these guys like Topping or SMSL make such technically perfect products ?

Digital audio is a well mastered field in electrical engineering for quite a long time now. Not to downplay their merit, it's a matter of putting time / effort, doing the right things to offer attractive / competitive products for the market you're seeking. Electronic components are evolving, production gets better, etc. Information and measurements like we find in this website change the consumer perception of quality and help diminish influence of marketing hype and lies. As engineers, we know actual audio quality doesn't have a direct relationship with price, contrary to what the industry wants you to believe!

 

[guyboisvert]

What about the remote control? Have they improved this?

It's the standard remote control they all use, and it's good enough IMHO. I find it comfortable and responsive.

 

[guyboisvert]

I wonder, when they start adding EQ... Or parametric EQ.

It would be good indeed, i'd like to do Room EQ directly in the DAC. This would probably translate into a higher price though, as XMOS XU platform doesn't do DSP IIRC.

 

[guyboisvert]

I've added it (as well as Meier crossfeed etc.) via foobar2000. Zero cost, works with any DAC.

Nice! I'm searching a way to add DSP to mpd (i don't use Windoze!). So far, found nothing well integrated and not too complicated.

 

[guyboisvert]

Topping, please add dual TOSLINK inputs.

You could use an optical splitter? I saw one @ 15$ on Amazon.

 

[guyboisvert]

Great dac.

Some mild criticism :
Why implementing bluetooth ? This protocol has nothing to do with high fidelity, - it would have been really great If there was DLNA , Wi-Fi and Airplay compability.

But I guess one cant have it all for this price.

Plug Volumio in it! That's a DAC, not a streamer!

 

[guyboisvert]

I bought it and i'm very satisfied: Smooth and precise sound, good looking, XLR, etc. I know i could have bought a less expensive one (was considering SMSL D-6s too) but i love the display and i wanted to get 12V trigger. Considering the high audio quality, it's not very expensive anyway, even more when comparing to other supposedly "Audiophile" DACs costing much more while offering less fidelity! With high quality recordings, it really sounds marvelous! I replaced an Ayre QB-9 that cost much more (bought it used @ 1200$): This DAC is equally good if not better! Rest of sound system: Hyper DIY Nilai 500 Stereo / Hyper DIY Preamp / Ryan R610 / Signal Canare L-4E6S / Speakers Canare 4S12F

 

[cochinada]

OK thanks, I'll keep what I have then.

Measurements alone aren't everything by any means.

 

[JimWeir]

Great dac.

Some mild criticism :
Why implementing bluetooth ? This protocol has nothing to do with high fidelity, - it would have been really great If there was DLNA , Wi-Fi and Airplay compability.

But I guess one cant have it all for this price.

Bluetooth with the current available codecs is comparable if not exceeds LP fidelity. And definitely better than FM.

 

[Wesen]

It would be good indeed, i'd like to do Room EQ directly in the DAC. This would probably translate into a higher price though, as XMOS XU platform doesn't do DSP IIRC.

I would accept higher price. For me, there is no need for more DACs in the his price segment and quality without such features as PEQ.

 

[RitzyBusiness]

I was moving back and forth between 4v and 5v but noticed there isn't much if any noticeable difference in volume output. Its maybe subtle~

Is that normal for a 5v and 4v to sound the same in those regards? Just kind of curious, while 5v is just a set and forget since its better I wanted to see if I could discern SOMETHING different. I assumed it would be a little louder.

 

[staticV3]

Is that normal for a 5v and 4v to sound the same in those regards?

On the D70 Pro Sabre, the 5V mode is 1.6dB or about 10% louder than 4V.

 

[RitzyBusiness]

On the D70 Pro Sabre, the 5V mode is 1.6dB or about 10% louder than 4V.

That explains that, thanks for the response.

 

[mike7877]

I don't understand...
How is 1kHz @ 108.5dB THD+n with 22.05kHz bandwidth equal to 123.5dB THD+n at 90kHz bandwidth?

Isn't noise supposed to +3dB when you double the bandwidth?

22.05 ~= 22.5, 22.5 * 2 = 45kHz, 45kHz * 2 = 90kHz.
Therefore:
108.5 -3 -3 = 102.5

-102.5dB THD+n?

Or do I have something really wrong?
... I must, but where?

 

[staticV3]

I don't understand...
How is 1kHz @ 108.5dB THD+n with 22.05kHz bandwidth equal to 123.5dB THD+n at 90kHz bandwidth?
Or do I have something really wrong?
... I must, but where?

You got them switched around.

22.4kHz BW -> 123dB SINAD:


90kHz BW -> 108dB SINAD:

 

[mike7877]

You got them switched around.

22.4kHz BW -> 123dB SINAD:
View attachment 362351

90kHz BW -> 108dB SINAD:
View attachment 362352

Major brain farts lol. Thank you!

 

[mike7877]

You got them switched around.

22.4kHz BW -> 123dB SINAD:
View attachment 362351

90kHz BW -> 108dB SINAD:
View attachment 362352

Actually... now that it's fixed it still seems to be a bit off, by 8dB instead of 20.5 though...

Are they done at different voltages?

 

[staticV3]

Actually... now that it's fixed it still seems to be a bit off, by 8dB instead of 20.5 though...

Are they done at different voltages?

Unlikely.

However, you cannot predict noise based on bandwidth alone, as many modern DACs use techniques like noise shaping which results in an uneven noise floor.

Therefore, increasing the measurement bandwidth just slightly may result in a large drop in SINAD.

 

[Audiobliss2]

Got a D70 Pro Sabre today, it's a nice improvement over my E70. Got a good open box price of $450.00 on Amazon. Timing is everything, I have been thinking about it, but the price was a bit high.
I tried the Octo last week, but sent it back in a few days. Was totally disappointed with its sound. It sounded flat and lifeless, my E70 blew it away.
The Pro Sabre is a different animal, full body, good bloom, like I added tubes.
I didn't think it would be this much better that the E70, but it's a nice surprise.
Not sure how many hours is on it, so I am hoping there is even better to come.

 

[cochinada]

Got a D70 Pro Sabre today, it's a nice improvement over my E70. Got a good open box price of $450.00 on Amazon. Timing is everything, I have been thinking about it, but the price was a bit high.
I tried the Octo last week, but sent it back in a few days. Was totally disappointed with its sound. It sounded flat and lifeless, my E70 blew it away.
The Pro Sabre is a different animal, full body, good bloom, like I added tubes.
I didn't think it would be this much better that the E70, but it's a nice surprise.
Not sure how many hours is on it, so I am hoping there is even better to come.

Interesting because the Octo version is more praised with YouTube reviewers than the Sabre. BTW, I also have the Sabre version but never heard the Octo.