Robbie Busting Audio Myths at CanJam NYC 2024

[IAtaman]

Our beloved everything audio expert Rob "300dB" Watts is popping myths at CanJam NYC 2024 like nobody's business, in his personal brand of a bit of truth mixed with a generous dose of BS.

Here is a preview of what to expect from Rob this time around. What a legend.

 

[Soria Moria]

I don't have the patience to listen to a delusional man make up justifications for overpriced products for an hour. I'll instead just read the entertaining replies.

 

[kemmler3D]

So what I was able to get from the transcript:

1. Jitter
2. RF noise flipping bits
3. RF noise correlated with your music somehow, flipping bits

I guess I won't argue that those can be audible in principle, but I am not convinced these are present or audible or make it into the output in typical use cases, since you know, I've rarely if ever seen evidence of it happening. His assertions about hearing it aren't super compelling...

 

[tmtomh]

RF and EM interference are very real and they can have easily audible effects... and so do ground loops, and DC in the AC line. And the technology to measure this stuff, and to resist/suppress this stuff, is not mysterious or especially complicated.

The idea that these forms of interference exist is uncontroversial. The idea that they can exist at unmeasurable levels (or measurable levels below well-understood thresholds of human hearing) yet still creep into your system to impact the sound in very subtle, "analogue" ways like soundstage, "rhythm and pacing," "transient slam" and so on is just hand-waving nonsense.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

Our data is stored and moved around in large RF fields. If bit flipping was a thing, computers would only ever work in a Faraday cage.

 

[solderdude]

Its random noise modulation I tell you... It artificially makes the sound sharper/brighter.
Listening fatigue ....
When the noise is hundreds dB down it can still be heard. Its the f'ing brain that can detect this.
You need single wire mains cables .... that'll help too.
Amd yes... GH noise will be AM detected and this will make things sound bad.
Jitter is a problem ... but not in Robs DACs. He is the only one that knows how to do it.
USB cables are incredibly difficult to make...
SMPS sound much better... because they have filters... Noise modulation people... > 100dB down
And yes, batteries have noise which makes the sound bright..
All metals have noise... it makes the sound bright... the depth... noise modulation yes ... -350dB
Resistors are horrible.
Capacitors have noise folks ... modulation...
Inductors ... don't use them in the audio path ...

Of course, all parts used by Rob sound smooth... other brands... bright, the noise you know ... -350dB noise yes... it matters folks.

 

[NTK]

The New Horizons spacecraft, currently 58.75 AU from planet Earth (58.75 times the average distance between us and the sun, = 5.46 billion miles). The New Horizons' radio communication system has an RF output power of 12 W.

NASA and the spacecraft are both able to pick out the radio signals from each other (at ~10^-19 W) against all the RF interferences from human made sources such as cell phones, satellite communications, radios, radars, etc., and from natural sources. So, yeah Robbie, if you think it is still a problem for audio transmissions in homes, may be you need to update your skills.

 

[ahofer]

The New Horizons spacecraft, currently 58.75 AU from planet Earth (58.75 times the average distance between us and the sun, = 5.46 billion miles). The New Horizons' radio communication system has an RF output power of 12 W.

NASA and the spacecraft are both able to pick out the radio signals from each other (at ~10^-19 W) against all the RF interferences from human made sources such as cell phones, satellite communications, radios, radars, etc., and from natural sources. So, yeah Robbie, if you think it is still a problem for audio transmissions in homes, may be you need to update your skills.

Well, he can hear mosquitos farting at that distance.

 

[kemmler3D]

Its random noise modulation I tell you... It artificially makes the sound sharper/brighter.
Listening fatigue ....
When the noise is hundreds dB down it can still be heard. Its the f'ing brain that can detect this.
You need single wire mains cables .... that'll help too.
Amd yes... GH noise will be AM detected and this will make things sound bad.
Jitter is a problem ... but not in Robs DACs. He is the only one that knows how to do it.
USB cables are incredibly difficult to make...
SMPS sound much better... because they have filters... Noise modulation people... > 100dB down
And yes, batteries have noise which makes the sound bright..
All metals have noise... it makes the sound bright... the depth... noise modulation yes ... -350dB
Resistors are horrible.
Capacitors have noise folks ... modulation...
Inductors ... don't use them in the audio path ...

Of course, all parts used by Rob sound smooth... other brands... bright, the noise you know ... -350dB noise yes... it matters folks.

If he could hear something 350dB down he'd have vastly better hearing than Superman is depicted as having in the comics / movies. The distance he could hear loud noises from is a significant fraction of a lightyear. Billions or trillions of kilometers away. I haven't run the numbers but I'm pretty sure brownian motion of air molecules makes a much louder noise than what he claims to be able to hear.

It's a wonder that anyone sits there and listens to stuff like that as if their intelligence isn't being gravely insulted.

 

[Sal1950]

Of course, all parts used by Rob sound smooth... other brands... bright, the noise you know ... -350dB noise yes... it matters folk

ROTFLMAO

 

[Vacceo]

Now, serious question: why is Toslink better than, let´s say, HDMI for transmiting audio?

 

[Sal1950]

Now, serious question: why is Toslink better than, let´s say, HDMI for transmiting audio?

I always liked it because it provides 100% galvanic isolated, no chance of a created ground loop.
But it will be limited to 2ch and 24/96bps on most systems, though some will do 24/192
depending on the gear at both ends.

 

[solderdude]

Now, serious question: why is Toslink better than, let´s say, HDMI for transmiting audio?

No groundloops.
He has a point there.
Unfortunately there is a maximum to the datarate and you need a good receiver + jitter reduction.
That could be a problem when doing 7.1 for instance and video is not possible so it isn't an alternative for HDMI

 

[Vacceo]

I always liked it because it provides 100% galvanic isolated, no chance of a created ground loop.
But it will be limited to 2ch and 24/96bps on most systems, though some will do 24/192
depending on the gear at both ends.

HDMI sends also a digital signal, so the advantages should be the same.

No groundloops.
He has a point there.
Unfortunately there is a maximum to the datarate and you need a good receiver + jitter reduction.

As I told Sal, HDMI shouldn´t have groundloops.

 

[solderdude]

HDMI does have ground connected on both sides of the cable.

 

[levimax]

HDMI does have ground connected on both sides of the cable.

I have had multiple personal experiences with ground loops caused from mixing cable TV with audio components. The ground level of the TV cable is often different than the mains ground and when the HDMI connects the TV to the AVR you get a ground loop.

 

[Sal1950]

HDMI does have ground connected on both sides of the cable.

Yep, I'm for sure no expert here but AFAIK toslink optical should also be immune to the other forms of
signal contamination via RF and other radiated forms of induced noise.
OTOH as I already mentioned toslink as implemented for the use of digital signal transmission in HiFi is badly limited in
bandwidth etc, it's obsolete. But then we all know that optical fiber has fantastic potential, just not as designed way back in the early days of CD, etc. I use optical HDMI cables for the transmission of all my saved music and video files, it is capable of over
100ft or more distances with the proper gear.

 

[Jmudrick]

I always liked it because it provides 100% galvanic isolated, no chance of a created ground loop.
But it will be limited to 2ch and 24/96bps on most systems, though some will do 24/192
depending on the gear at both ends.

True but need not be anything fancy. No problem with 24/192 from Wiim to SMSL DAC with cheap toslink cable in my system.

 

[JSmith]

Well, he can hear mosquitos farting at that distance.

JSmith

 

[Sal1950]

True but need not be anything fancy. No problem with 24/192 from Wiim to SMSL DAC with cheap toslink cable in my system.

Really not a matter of "fancy" or not. For whatever reasons more folks than not can't pass better than 24/96 over toslink.