End Game Speakers - The Quest Continues

[poopy]

Having a 'high' budget like @MKR has an advantage: one can consider speakers from small companies present on ASR like @sigbergaudio, @Bjorn, @Duke, etc.... that distinguish themselves from off-the shelf speakers by offering very specific features, high quality drivers, cabinet customization, bespoke support/advices, etc...

Based on my own speaker quest, measurements should be of course considered when making out the list of speakers to demo. However, the final choice will be instead based on a combination of technical features like cardioid design, driver size, 4-way design, etc.; more subjective features like soundstage size, etc.; and also practical features like cabinet size, easiness to demo and source, possible customization, helpful customer service, etc.

 

[AudioJester]

Cool to see this journey continuing. Sometimes the ride is better than the destination.

Might have missed it, but are you now cosidering separate HT and stereo setups? If so, in a new build, have you considered architectural for the HT side? Really opens up a room visually with no speaker clutter and can sound brilliant. For HT the audio (Dirac/Trinniov) and Video (Lumagenn, MadVR) perhaps make a bigger difference than speakers or screen. With architectural will have plenty of space for mad scientist full range speakers.

 

[ChrisHeinonen]

I'm just hoping that if Dutch & Dutch is making a larger follow-up to the 8C that it has eARC and AES67 inputs so that it's far easier to incorporate into a TV/Home Theater system than the current version is. That's the primary hang-up I have with it as putting it into the main living area and being hard to control compared to something with eARC kills it for my situation.

 

[CapMan]

Trouble with end game anything is the unbelievably high level of expectation it sets….when you feel you’ve paid top dollar for perfection there is huge scope to find fault …and ultimately be unhappy all over again.

It’s the main reason I’ve gone in the other direction and tried to find a setup that is value for money, it’s much harder to pick it apart when it’s been built to a more modest budget.

Just my perspective …

 

[poopy]

I'm just hoping that if Dutch & Dutch is making a larger follow-up to the 8C

This has been discussed many times on ASR. But has it been confirmed by D&D?

 

[Mr. Widget]

Stapleton is excellent for sure, fella definitely has a set of pipes!

Try again and let me know … http://open.qobuz.com/playlist/19833957

Thanks for sharing, this is a very nice collection.

Based on this playlist, I'm going to guess you appreciate systems that feature exemplary imaging.

 

[Shiva]

A fun way to explore what speakers are out there, is to visit the virtual systems on Audiogon. 100’s of different speakers designs to explore. I will throw another end game speaker perhaps, Rockport Altairs.

Hi-Fi Audio Systems & Audiophile Listening Rooms

Explore audiophile equipment, hi-fi audio systems and listening rooms for inspiration and ideas.

www.audiogon.com

 

[srrxr71]

I'm just hoping that if Dutch & Dutch is making a larger follow-up to the 8C that it has eARC and AES67 inputs so that it's far easier to incorporate into a TV/Home Theater system than the current version is. That's the primary hang-up I have with it as putting it into the main living area and being hard to control compared to something with eARC kills it for my situation.

Blusound node is what I use. Since then there have been many products at a lower price point which can do it. I’d rather not have all that built in. What if you don’t like the app control that’s built in?

The KEF LS50W v1 taught me that. I know it doesn’t have HDMI and v2 does. If they hadn’t improved the app control I wouldn’t touch it.

Devialet is an awesome speaker but why is it pretty much never talked about anymore? It’s that app.

 

[srrxr71]

Cool to see this journey continuing. Sometimes the ride is better than the destination.

Might have missed it, but are you now cosidering separate HT and stereo setups? If so, in a new build, have you considered architectural for the HT side? Really opens up a room visually with no speaker clutter and can sound brilliant. For HT the audio (Dirac/Trinniov) and Video (Lumagenn, MadVR) perhaps make a bigger difference than speakers or screen. With architectural will have plenty of space for mad scientist full range speakers.

Trust me the destination is better. Really. Been on it for 2 decades+.

 

[Pearljam5000]

No Wilson Audio suggestions so far?

 

[MattHooper]

I find threads like this lots of fun. Someone is on a speaker journey, we get to hear about all sorts of speakers MKR has tested/auditioned. He may choose speakers I'd never choose myself if I had his budget. But I still think other people's decision processes are interesting. And we get to discuss all sorts of loudspeakers, some cropping up along the way that many may not have even been aware of.

 

[ChrisHeinonen]

Blusound node is what I use. Since then there have been many products at a lower price point which can do it. I’d rather not have all that built in. What if you don’t like the app control that’s built in?

The KEF LS50W v1 taught me that. I know it doesn’t have HDMI and v2 does. If they hadn’t improved the app control I wouldn’t touch it.

Devialet is an awesome speaker but why is it pretty much never talked about anymore? It’s that app.

If you're using HDMI eARC then the app doesn't matter for watching movies or TV, which makes it very easy to live with. Right now the living room system is an LG G3 OLED and Sonos Atmos system and everything is controlled with the AppleTV remote. For listening to music you can still hook up a separate streaming box for a digital input, but having eARC means that everyone else can use it without needing to do anything at all aside from using the regular TV/Streaming Box remote.

 

[MattHooper]

And yes, I plan to provide a show report. H

Hey @MKR

For purely selfish reasons, I'd be curious what you think of the Joseph Audio room this year. Looks like Jeff is using the smaller, slimmer floorstanding
Perspective 2 Graphene speakers which I own.

 

[srrxr71]

If you're using HDMI eARC then the app doesn't matter for watching movies or TV, which makes it very easy to live with. Right now the living room system is an LG G3 OLED and Sonos Atmos system and everything is controlled with the AppleTV remote. For listening to music you can still hook up a separate streaming box for a digital input, but having eARC means that everyone else can use it without needing to do anything at all aside from using the regular TV/Streaming Box remote.

What i’m saying is that if there were a hypothetical LS50W v1 with HDMI eARC that KEF app is horrible. It does not even connect properly I had to often get up and switch the source on the speaker.

So moving to the Blusound node was a huge upgrade as the app actually works properly.

My only point is let the speaker makers focus on making speakers and the steamer/app people focus on that.

Once you add a suitable box to a D&D 8C then it has HDMI eARC. If that box breaks change it. If you don’t like the app change it. Better not to build everything into the same box.

Just whatever box you have leave it on HDMI for the family and then when you need music switch it.

 

[srrxr71]

I find threads like this lots of fun. Someone is on a speaker journey, we get to hear about all sorts of speakers MKR has tested/auditioned. He may choose speakers I'd never choose myself if I had his budget. But I still think other people's decision processes are interesting. And we get to discuss all sorts of loudspeakers, some cropping up along the way that many may not have even been aware of.

Only thing better is getting invites to show up to the listening sessions.

 

[prestigetone]

If it's taking this long to decide on a set it's hard to believe that there won't be a change of direction after purchase. Should be renamed enjoyment game. Whatever makes you enjoy your choice.

 

[srrxr71]

Things tend to be a trade off between time/effort and funds.

Something like Bose line array is pretty suitable option including some more PA style products like Danley as long as one is comfortable using a 3d party DSP like mini DSP or software like Accourate. They need some work.

Or one could straight away go to an HT receiver with pre outs. All of them have enough SINAD. Just think about it. Use Dirac in a consumer friendly calibration. Especially now that they have PC software and phone apps.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Another option

 

[Sokel]

Don't necessarily disagree, but it's not the main takeaway. Having heard my own speakers in a lot of different rooms, my experience is that:

The same speakers in two different rooms can sound more different than two different speakers in the same room.

Yep.

Promoted - Room Treatment – This Year's Snake Oil?

Buying great audio equipment doesn’t guarantee great sound. Your room will make huge changes to the sound of your speakers which prevents you from enjoying your music and movies at their best. As the room creates the problem, designing and treating it seems logical, but no matter how carefully...

www.avforums.com

 

[MKR]

I think the disagreement about whether to lean into room reflections or try to control them is ultimately irreconcilable... because the type of stereo image each produces is different and neither is more right than the other.

But that's only if the room and speakers are both decent.

So I 100% agree that if there's a chance to make the room sound better, you should take it.

The difference between anechoic and in-room levels is often 3dB or more. It's "only" 3dB, but that means fully half of what you hear is bouncing off something before it gets to your ear. The room is part of the system, and in every sense you should consider it the biggest part.

If I had a 5-figure budget and a free hand to treat a room, I'd personally put in a (literal) truckload of diffusers and bass traps.

If I have to add a “truckload” of room treatment then I have taken a very wrong turn in my quest and I should just get out of the hobby, maybe collect buttons instead, much easier on the pocket book