Soekris DAM1021 R2R DAC Measurements

[DonH56]

That is the part I already did but would have liked more time with the Yggdrasil before it went back.

Great, you just wrote their next advertising copy... "Even Amir says..."

 

[amirm]

Oh no!!!!

 

[DuxServit]

Something like “Even Amir says...he needs more cuddle time with Yggy to get warmed-up and burn-in”.

 

[Blumlein 88]

@soekris
So according to a comment in a review elsewhere your 1021 board is being used in a Less Loss $20k DAC.

Here is the comment:
https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/...ac-full-review/?do=findComment&comment=951261

Here is the review:
https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/...-dac-full-review/?tab=comments#comment-951261

 

[Jimster480]

@soekris
So according to a comment in a review elsewhere your 1021 board is being used in a Less Loss $20k DAC.

Here is the comment:
https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/56245-article-lessloss-echo’s-end-reference-dac-full-review/?do=findComment&comment=951261

Here is the review:
https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/56245-article-lessloss-echo’s-end-reference-dac-full-review/?tab=comments#comment-951261

Lmfao what a joke!

These didn't measure well the first time... and it looks like they are using early version models for this 20k DAC...

 

[Shadrach]

I don't understand.
Why is it that when a voltage is applied to a particular piece of electronics and the output is measured and stated everybody goes home with a smile on their faces. When that voltage represesnts what we call music, war breaks out.

 

[gvl]

Anyone who bought it would be Less Loss of 20k, sounds about right.

 

[pkane]

Anyone who bought it would be Less Loss of 20k, sounds about right.

I'd call $20k more of a loss than less, but that's just my subjective opinion

 

[Cortes]

I've not read the review, but I'm mostly ready to bet my bank account that is stellar. Reviews at CA, as in many other hifi places, convey always the idea that the more $ the better performance. These reviews are as useful, or even less, than the manual of the manufacturer. A full waste of time.

I guess the goal of the manufacturers with a non-sense price tag in a beautiful box is to get easy advertising, not really to sell any unit.

 

[Hugo9000]

I'd call $20k more of a loss than less, but that's just my subjective opinion

But from the viewpoint of the vendor, MoreProfit=LessLoss

 

[Blumlein 88]

Lmfao what a joke!

These didn't measure well the first time... and it looks like they are using early version models for this 20k DAC...

The Less Loss guy is posting in the comments over at CA.

Distortion in the mid -80 db range? No problem, not even mentioned.

Jitter can hardly be measured. No problem, jitter is our main concern. We have to use our ears where measuring gear can't go. No problem.

The special material to prevent vibration and coloration (which is below measuring) strikingly clear how much it damages the sound. More clear than measurable distortion. And somehow it is always expensive to fix this.

Oh and the possible need for electrical shielding which can be measured, not an issue because doing so causes onerous obvious noxious bad sound qualities, that also can't be measured only heard. It takes lots of experience to reach these conclusions or so is said.

 

[Jimster480]

The Less Loss guy is posting in the comments over at CA.

Distortion in the mid -80 db range? No problem, not even mentioned.

Jitter can hardly be measured. No problem, jitter is our main concern. We have to use our ears where measuring gear can't go. No problem.

The special material to prevent vibration and coloration (which is below measuring) strikingly clear how much it damages the sound. More clear than measurable distortion. And somehow it is always expensive to fix this.

Oh and the possible need for electrical shielding which can be measured, not an issue because doing so causes onerous obvious noxious bad sound qualities, that also can't be measured only heard. It takes lots of experience to reach these conclusions or so is said.

Yep I read through some of the cancer he is spewing over there.... I guess hes gotta sell his scam somehow!

 

[pkane]

The funniest thing was his justification for why ears are better at detecting jitter than lab instruments:

Let me give you a visual example. In the lab, when you set up a sensitive jitter test, and you do nothing more than wave your hand around the digital cable, the scope shows wild fluctuations of the data readout. But when you listen to a sound system, and you have somebody wave their hand around the digital cable, you don't honestly say you can hear wild fluctuations in the sound quality.
This goes to show how this particular measurement is far from the end of the story.

The conclusion, then, is that measurements are no good because they can detect something that the ear can't.

We always know that sonic performance has primarily to do with Jitter reduction, and that Jitter is always going to be contended, since it is impossible to measure with authority. We work by ear where the lab equipment can’t follow.

 

[Jimster480]

The funniest thing was his justification for why ears are better at detecting jitter than lab instruments:


The conclusion, then, is that measurements are no good because they can detect something that the ear can't.

its amazing the hoops these guys will jump through to justify their snake oil

 

[amirm]

The funniest thing was his justification for why ears are better at detecting jitter than lab instruments:


The conclusion, then, is that measurements are no good because they can detect something that the ear can't.

Indeed. Ask if him if has ever heard of FFT to see the spectrum of jitter.

 

[DonH56]

Someone needs to explain CDR (clock and data recovery) concepts to him. But OTOH it'd be a waste of time since he apparently knows it all already.

I was going to make some comments about cables and waving ones hands around them but meh.

 

[pkane]

Indeed. Ask if him if has ever heard of FFT to see the spectrum of jitter.

I think I know the answer

 

[amirm]

I was going to make some comments about cables and waving ones hands around them but meh.

I saw that too. Someone should tell him to connect both ends and see if it still does that. Or else if he is talking about his own cables, then that would be a reason to not buy them....

 

[Blumlein 88]

I saw that too. Someone should tell him to connect both ends and see if it still does that. Or else if he is talking about his own cables, then that would be a reason to not buy them....

But his own C-Marc cables go where instruments cannot! See the benefits in the bit below from their web page. Two scale fractal braid. Superposed bucking coil geometry with counter rotating structure. After going on and on in their power cables about how they use skin filtering, and not any caps or coils. Never harsh, but with potent transients.

Yeah the bit about not hearing what an instrument shows so, smoke and mirrors, the ear is more sensitive made me just shake my head. Like Don, I was going to comment on that and decided it not worth the bother. As one guideline I read once about talking to crazy people said, "what is your #1 goal when around crazy people? To get away from them and not have to talk with or interact with them".

 

[DonH56]

Good grief, what do those definitions even mean? Just randomly throwing words together? Should not have looked at that after eating lunch...

My guideline: "Don't sling mud with a pig; you just get dirty, and the pig likes it."