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Zero-emission vehicles, their batteries & subsidies/rebates for them.- No politics regarding the subsidies!

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Beershaun

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Since hybrid vehicles are already available and require no additional infrastructure for charging, why are they not being considered as a bridging technology or a better solution to control AGW? The US no longer offers credits on those purchases.
Sure. It seems like every car should have some sort of battery and electric motor to improve efficiency. If every car was required to go the "average" commute distance at the "average" commute speed with no emissions, it seems like that could be a huge win in reducing CO2 emissions and wasted fuel.

Whenever I see a line of cars idling on the highway I just think of the colossal waste of fuel. The amount of time and energy spent finding and pumping out that oil, then transporting it to a refinery, then refining it, then transporting it to a gas station. All so it can be wasted idling in traffic contributing to the decline of our climate is pretty tragic. It seems like there could be a lot done to "just reduce the waste" in our daily drive cycles when a car is doing no work.
 

MediumRare

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Like lithium extraction facilities in Alberta hydrogen is a upcoming sector. Alberta is poised to replace the existing petroleum industry with lithium, petrochemical and hydrogen production. Exciting times.
Excess wind and Hydropower is a perfect source for liquid hydrogen, which is more energy- dense than diesel.
 

MediumRare

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E.V. are creating a HUGE problem: battery waste.

Also, the needs to use 15,000 MLCC (per car) is no joke either.
Facts please. Source for that? Old vehicle batteries can be reused for stationary power. Massive investment is going into recycling companies. There are hardly any old vehicle batteries yet.
 

MediumRare

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Since hybrid vehicles are already available and require no additional infrastructure for charging, why are they not being considered as a bridging technology or a better solution to control AGW? The US no longer offers credits on those purchases.
Who isn’t considering them? Toyota's whole line includes hybrid. Have you heard of a Prius?
 
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Doodski

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Excess wind and Hydropower is a perfect source for liquid hydrogen, which is more energy- dense than diesel.
Hydropower is prone to excessive methane produced in reservoirs and mercury leaches into the water at reservoirs too
Who isn’t considering them? Toyota's whole line includes hybrid. Have you heard of a Prius?
In Canada I see many hybrids, they are very common. I think the plan is to phase out all ICE's even hybrids. The carbon reduction goal posts are changing so often that I loose track of where we are in this sometimes.
Toyota also offers a hydrogen fuel cell powered car. More details here and there is a bus here.
 

jhaider

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We are all in on modern cars, with an RWD Model 3 Long Range and an AWD Model Y Long Range 7-seater in the family. They’re great cars but not perfect. The turning radius is too wide on both of them. That’s the beginning and end of my complaints. If they were more maneuverable they would be damn near perfect. It also feels good as an American to know that Tesla’s out there making American cars worth a damn, that people all over the world want. That was never the case previously in my lifetime.

The federal tax subsidy was long gone by the time we purchased the Model Y, and in fact regressive legislators decided to impose an annual registration penalty on modern cars in addition to removing prior state incentives before we bought the Model 3. (My opinion is all cars should be taxed on weight - moderns would pay more than equivalent legacies, but weight impacts wear and tear on infrastructure so that’s fair - and fuel taxes should be repurposed for climate change mitigation.)

In our use the electric drivetrain has zero drawbacks compared to legacy toxic algae corpse crematoria, and many advantages. The cars as a whole are just plain better vehicles than their competitors foreign and domestic. I’m glad there may be real competition emerging though: Kia, Hyundai, Polestar, Volvo, Ford, VW, Lucid, etc.

I’m ambivalent about EV subsidies. One one hand they’re clearly welfare for the upper middle classes, using money could perhaps be better deployed to improve the lives of the working poor or children, or used for foreign aid (which barely qualifies on a line item in current budgets, even before you separate the relabeled domestic corporate and agricultural welfare from actual aid). On the other hand the subsidies incentivize the transition to modern vehicles, and should lower prices due to economies of scale. I consider that a collective net positive.

However, we recently moved to a new city, and the requirement to find a home with a garage and ability to add a high-amp outlet for a car charger in a walkable city neighborhood was a constraint that kept us from examining several homes in target neighborhoods within our budget. But then again so did our maximum commute expectations, neighborhood walkability expectations, space/layout expectations, proximity to useful mass transit lines expectations, etc. It was just another checkbox, albeit a must-have rather than a maybe-we-can-make-do.

PS I don’t put PHEV in the same category as real EV. They’re fine transitional vehicles and a good choice for the range anxious, but annoying. PHEVs tend to hog public chargers, when they have other means of propulsion that pure modern cars don’t.
 
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Marc v E

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@Doodski : ev's are according to our national institute for car owners (anwb) and some manufacturers like vw and Tesla, cheaper to own over their lifetime than a gas powered vehicle. That's because they apparently have about half the cost for fuel and maintenance.

If you want to choose a good one check out Sandy Munro on youtube. They have a teardown on many models. Long story short: buy a Tesla, then a ford mustang etc.

On the high cost of initial purchase. There are many options of rebates depending on the country you live in but cost parity is achieved anyway in the next 2 or 3 years. When you look at the cost of production and owning it's just a matter of scaling up manufacturing for ev's to win. In 10 years time no other new cars than EV's will be sold. Many car manufacturers will not be able to make the change. The funny thing is many car manufacturers still think and actively lobby for delay until after 2030, but the market has already decided based on costs. For the same reason hydrogen has failed in Norway, a country which is a frontrunner on ev adoption. I you want to know why hydrogen didn't win check out youtube engineering explained.
 

Alice of Old Vincennes

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Yes, presently you would need 2 charging stations for that 300km trip. @ home and @ the destination for many electric vehicles. Apparently there is new Panasonic lithium battery technology coming that has much more storage capacity and increases the range substantially. The battery will have five times the storage capacity of current Tesla battery packs and will cost 50 percent less to build. The development of battery technology is paramount at the moment and I think the rewards for a successful technology are huge so the race is on for the leader to capitalize well.
What difference does battery technology matter? California is browning out occasionally. If the magic wand waved and CA had 50% electric penetration overnight, it's grid would implode in minutes.
 

JJB70

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I no longer have a car, and honestly don't miss it. We live in a city state with outstanding public transport and don't see the point of car ownership here.
That said, before leaving England I was pretty much decided to go EV if we had stayed. Not so much for environmental reasons but because I prefer EVs. Their performance, ownership proposition, quietness etc make IC powered cars seem backwards and there were multiple options that met my needs for range. The Tesla model 3 is an outstanding car that redefines the market and offers supercar performance along with great practicality for not much more than the price of a well specc'd 320d. I listed after a Jaguar IPace, which is a superb car. At the more affordable end KIA make some superb EVs, the Renault Zoe is still an excellent car whilst MG make some really good affordable EVs. I know it's common for European people to sneer at MG because they're Chinese but the reality is they make good, value oriented cars.
On the Environmental stuff, all the life cycle analysis I have seen is positive, especially in countries with a significant percentage of low emission electricity. Even where electricity is still largely fossil fuels based it moves emissions from local streets to power plants where emissions abatement can be much more effective and fuel used more efficiently. On the other hand EVs are not as squeaky clean as the proselytising true believers want to believe and some of the holier-than-thou attitudes are profoundly irritating even as an EV advocate myself. I have friends and colleagues who have spent their careers working in fossil energy and who have owned seriously high performance petrol engines cars, flown more than almost anyone outside of flight crew now getting all judgemental because they be bought a Tesla. Again, even as an EV enthusiast that rubs me the wrong way
 

Blumlein 88

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Not disagreeing, but one could replace California with America in your statement and it would be no less accurate.
Well as often has been the case, California leads the trends for the rest of the country.
 

Ron Texas

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Well as often has been the case, California leads the trends for the rest of the country.
There are definitely problems with having enough electricity in California. Texas had a catastrophic blackout last February. There are also grid problems in New England. I don't want to go into the causes because it will go off the rails fast.
 

Blumlein 88

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There are definitely problems with having enough electricity in California. Texas had a catastrophic blackout last February. There are also grid problems in New England. I don't want to go into the causes because it will go off the rails fast.
I seem to recall reading recently that Texas has the lowest reserve capacity on their electrical grid of all the 50 states.
 
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