Is Jay talking about Amir?

[Vini darko]

I agree with solderdude and Amir. He's doing his best to explain how his experience with audio. Both as a salesman , reviewer and recently his exposure to NRC crew in Canada through soundstage network. I did think it strange kipple wasn't mentioned but he has no experience with it first hand so probably a wise move.

 

[Midwest Blade]

I used to listen to a few of these guys on youtube but in a short period of time found them all to be saying the same thing, over and over and over..

Entertaining - maybe, useful - not at all. I have moved on from these videos long ago

 

[Sancus]

I used to listen to a few of these guys on youtube but in a short period of time found them all to be saying the same thing, over and over and over..

Entertaining - maybe, useful - not at all. I have moved on from these videos long ago

That's the trick. It's mostly nonspecific, hedged garbage buried in 90% rambling. This consistently achieves low-to-moderate success on youtube, because youtube directly rewards minutes watched, and there's always bored people to churn through even if they eventually get tired of it.

"He's not wrong -- but he's not trying to be more right."

 

[jkasch]

It's the unboxing videos that win the stupid award. Watch some hands fondle a box and its contents for several minutes while listening to worthless comments.

 

[PierreV]

But this goes against Toole. Toole says all of humanity prefers one specific kind of frequency response.

That's absolutely not what "Toole says". (he said and still says many interesting things obviously, but this is about the part you are alluding to)

What Toole did (very heavily summarized)

1) collected preference ratings.
2) made different objective measurements.
3) derived a model that is the "best" (for the dataset available) at predicting preference ratings by giving weights to measurements. (see https://patents.google.com/patent/US20050195982A1/en)

-
from a plurality of candidate independent variables indicative of loudspeaker sound quality, selecting a set of independent variables X1-Xn determined as maximizing the ability of a loudspeaker preference variable Y1 to predict a loudspeaker preference rating;
performing a multiple regression analysis to determine respective weights b1-bn for the selected independent variables X1-Xn; and
arranging the weighted independent variables into a linear relationship on which the loudspeaker preference variable depends according to:

Y 1 =b 0 +b 1 X 1 +b 2 X 2 +b 3 X 3 + . . . b n X n,
where n is the number of selected independent variables.
-

There are a lot of reasonable angles to attack the research if one is so inclined. If the field really mattered, you'd see people improving the predictor by 0.x% every few months or so, either by collecting more preference ratings, selecting different variables, using different types of regression or, other methods. But the field isn't really essential to mankind's survival and Toole's predictor is the best we have right now.

In fairness, the blind generalization and simplification of what "Toole says" isn't found exclusively in the subjective/anti-Toole crowds...

 

[Chrispy]

Meh, another guy who isn't even interesting to listen to.

ps Let alone watch....

 

[Trell]

It's the unboxing videos that win the stupid award. Watch some hands fondle a box and its contents for several minutes while listening to worthless comments.

In this age when so much is ordered online and unseen they have a purpose aside from curiosity: I can watch the product from various angles, how it is packed and what is included. I can also see if the item is sealed by the manufacturer or not. So when I receive the item I know what to expect and have a reasonable chance to detect if it is not new or, heaven forbid, a fake. If the item is large and heavy the unboxing movie helps me plan unpacking and installation.

 

[Chrispy]

In this age when so much is ordered online and unseen they have a purpose aside from curiosity: I can watch the product from various angles, how it is packed and what is included. I can also see if the item is sealed by the manufacturer or not. So when I receive the item I know what to expect and have a reasonable chance to detect if it is not new or, heaven forbid, a fake. If the item is large and heavy the unboxing movie helps me plan unpacking and installation.

Seeing how well an item is packed can be useful. Can't say I've ever had trouble figuring out how to unpack something, tho. Some videos do spend far too much time on this, tho.

 

[Helicopter]

I don't have a problem with this. He went to the NRC and saw the people there know what they are doing. He criticizes reviewers who take in room measurements with a '$100 microphone' which is fair. Measurements like that should be interpreted with a healthy measure of margin for error. No mention of NFS and no attack on Amir or ASR that I see.

He is close to being just another subjective reviewer, but he obviously learned some things on his trip to the NRC. Hopefully he continues to learn. If he reads Toole and learns what can be done with a AP analyzer and Klippel NFS, he will really be able to teach his audience some things.

 

[Trell]

Seeing how well an item is packed can be useful. Can't say I've ever had trouble figuring out how to unpack something, tho. Some videos do spend far too much time on this, tho.

Not for figuring out how to unpack as such but what is involved in the unpacking. It can be a simple as needing some extra space or perhaps have a friend available for certain moments in the installation.

 

[More Dynamics Please]

Unpacking videos are fine for seeing how well different items are packed. To accomplish this unpacking videos need be no more than 60 seconds long. Most run much longer because some people like to hear themselves ramble and assume that others will be equally impressed.

 

[Trell]

Unpacking videos are fine for seeing how well different items are packed. To accomplish this unpacking videos need be no more than 60 seconds long. Most run much longer because some people like to hear themselves ramble and assume that others will be equally impressed.

Some of them like the sound of their own voice Unpacking often shows the item in different angles, what is included etc, so more than 60 seconds if you want to see that as well.

 

[Chrispy]

Some of them?

Some of them like the sound of their own voice Unpacking often shows the item in different angles, what is included etc, so more than 60 seconds if you want to see that as well.

 

[Kvalsvoll]

Stopped at 4 min. By then, it is quite clear he does not have basic knowledge on the subject he is tutoring - electroacoustics, measurement technique, signals and systems.

I gave this video a chance. There are many yt-presenters out there doing audio/hifi related content, of which most are at best right out misleading. They pose as experts, but lack basic knowledge about the technology and physics behind - basic knowledge that has nothing to do with preference or subjective-vs-objective or opinion.

It is not wrong to do a video about your opinion on a product and its sound, like you experience it. But it is wrong to present technical information that is incorrect according to established science.

Science is not opinion. It is not democratic. You can not vote to find the answer. Science can be challenged, yes, but then you must start by learning what is already known, and then you can put down a hypothesis and prove though theory and controlled experiments that your new discovery is correct.

 

[restorer-john]

Harman research does not refer to "one specific kind of frequency response"...

Is that the "research" where the various listeners were told to do what they like with the bass and treble controls?

 

[Phorize]

The more pertinent question is where is Silent Bob?





JSmith

Kicking back, drinking beer and schmoking weed. Where else?

 

[Slayer]

I'm surprised people keep posting about these so called online video reviewers. I would have thought most people understood by now, these people are just the new age sales persons.
Most companies have come to the realization that there are not near as many audio store outlets like there once was not so long ago. So what better way to advertise in todays market ? People are so glued to the internet and get so much information there, seems like a pretty cheap and efficient way of marketing.

In short I don't get butt hurt by these guys, I realize their no different than the average sales guy you bump into at a car lot or wherever else you shop. Pay them no mind and just move on. To many other serious things going on in the world to worry about.

 

[amper42]

Jay's advice is long winded and offers nothing of value. He's another one of the youtube video reviewers who praised the Magnepan LRS. I don't know how he claims to be an expert on anything when he measures nothing. The anti-science moment is over. But look on the bright side, jobs are plentiful. They now pay almost $20 an hour to work at McDonalds. MickyD offers a great sound system that would allow Jay to preach to drive thru customers.

 

[raif71]

I don't have a problem with this. He went to the NRC and saw the people there know what they are doing. He criticizes reviewers who take in room measurements with a '$100 microphone' which is fair. Measurements like that should be interpreted with a healthy measure of margin for error. No mention of NFS and no attack on Amir or ASR that I see.

He is close to being just another subjective reviewer, but he obviously learned some things on his trip to the NRC. Hopefully he continues to learn. If he reads Toole and learns what can be done with a AP analyzer and Klippel NFS, he will really be able to teach his audience some things.

For me it's about bringing or bridging objectives and subjectives together. Like Jay said, measurement matter or not is not black or white area. If objectives can take the positives from subjectivist vice versa, imo the two areas (and people) can benefit from each other. I know the journey to that is slow but if we can start looking at our particular stance, talking about it and less condemning the other side then to me that is already a good start.

 

[Chrispy]

For me it's about bringing or bridging objectives and subjectives together. Like Jay said, measurement matter or not is not black or white area. If objectives can take the positives from subjectivist vice versa, imo the two areas (and people) can benefit from each other. I know the journey to that is slow but if we can start looking at our particular stance, talking about it and less condemning the other side then to me that is already a good start.

IME it's not the objective crowd that tries to make it into one vs the other....just the tool it can be. The subjectivist crowd tends to just simply discount any use of objective data. So somewhat black and white in these discussions accordingly. Condemning one side or the other is not usually an issue IME OTOH, more an interpretation from the butt-hurt crowd wanting to fanboi one side vs the other....