Audio-gd R7HE vs Holo May vs Denafrips Terminator

[archerious]

Couldn't agree more.

Here's what AGD claim about their own DACs:

"Pros and cons of R-2R DAC :
Advantages:
1.R-2R will not convert the clock signal into the output signal.
2. R-2R is not sensitive to jitter while Delta-Sigma D/A is much more sensitive to jitter. (Wrong)
3. The output signal is much more precise compared to Delta-Sigma D/A . (Wrong)
Weaknesses:
1.THD today is extremely good with Sigma Delta chips; R2R ladders are good too but not as good." (Wrong again: Unacceptable THD in both cases).

If we're talking about their DACs specificly, I see four sentences, three lies... But for now, we're beating a dead horse...

While I agree Audio-gd's DACs don't measure well, to say unacceptable THD for R2R ladder DACs as a blanket statement is false.

Several ladder DACs like Mola Mola's Tambaqui Holo Audio's May DAC measure with extremely low THD.

True they cost a shitload more than my D90, and I'd take my D90 any day over them, but let's not pretend there aren't R2R ladder DACs that measure well.

 

[gvl]

The Tambaqui isn't an R2R ladder DAC. The Holo Audio is more of an exception to the rule, but I suppose it does show that it can be done with some heroics.

 

[Martin]

I think the OP was a troll. His only posts were the two at the start of this thread plus one on anime.

 

[VintageFlanker]

to say unacceptable THD for R2R ladder DACs as a blanket statement is false.

Except that's not what I'm sayin at all: I say DACs from AGD, whatever DS or R2R, all have unacceptable THD.

Several ladder DACs like Mola Mola's Tambaqui or Holo Audio's May DAC measure with extremely low THD.

Tambaqui is not a ladder DAC.

but let's not pretend there aren't R2R ladder DACs that measure well.

Again, no one said that...

 

[xykreinov]

Hmmmm.... perhaps someone forgot that this is a Science" based audio forum. There are loads of other places where subjective audio impressions are more welcomed i guess.

So is there a chance that the expensive esoteric DAC with flawed measurements can sound good?

What a great first post

 

[archerious]

Except that's not what I'm sayin at all: I say DACs from AGD, whatever DS or R2R, all have unacceptable THD.

I misread then, my apologies.

You're correct in regards to all of Audio-gd's products measuring poorly. They also use cheap chassis, had one bend on years ago, also had an annoying hissing sound. NFB 10ES2 I believe was the model. Despite this they are not "affordable" by any means, the pricing on them is a joke, honestly I cannot even fathom how they are still in business.

 

[GoldenOne]

I really do wish there were more companies doing R2R "right"
Holo has proven that the idea that "R2R cannot perform well" is false.

Clearly there has been an immense amount of effort put into the design of the may, and the output stage and analog reconstruction on the may is seemingly much more advanced than other R2R dacs, but regardless of why, whatever they're doing is clearly working, and to my ears the May is the best dac I have ever heard, period.

But as much as I love it, competition is always a good thing for us consumers. More people buying holo dacs would be great to reward them for their achievements, but also to hopefully incentivise more companies to aim for similar advances. More competition, more innovation, better stuff for us.

 

[Martin]

Decoding audiophile speak...

"Extremely musical and resolving" means "full of distortion and colored."

I'll freely admit to thoroughly enjoying the sound of my 300b based PSET amplifiers. I also thought I liked the Loxjie P20 headphone amp I purchased. I have since found I cannot listen to it for extended periods - there is something that I cannot put my finger on that bothers me about it - it physically drains me to listen to it. I find myself consciously choosing my DX7 Pro in its place.

Martin

 

[andyusa17]

I'm personally curious about R7HE vs Metrum Onyx/Pavane.

I've owned heaps of DACs in my journey and (some) Audio GD units (with PC1704UK chips) have been among the best I've owned. I found Schiit to be overrated and Metrum Onyx and Pavane to be a real step up in quality from everything else. I've had the Gungnir Multibit (USB) and Holo Spring L2 (i2S) previously.

I also use measurements as a guide and ears as the final judge. I'm not here to debate that anyway, I was just hoping someone had heard the two DACs I mentioned and had some comments.

 

[gvl]

I'm afraid you won't be able to get any feedback you like to hear about AGD and Metrum on this forum. FWIW I owned the Pavane and thought it was magic, all that quickly came apart as soon as i tried a couple of clean DACs that were recommended here. I wouldn't touch AGD products with a long stick after the discoveries we've seen here.

 

[andyusa17]

Depends on your equipment too. I like the "clean dacs" with headphones like Mr Speakers Ether but hated them with HD800.

HD800 and pavane was a match made in heaven for me. To each their own I guess. I still like seeing what measures well out of curiosity but my ears sometimes have differing opinons to measuring equipment and I am not a reviewer but a music listener I go with my ears.

 

[gvl]

Depends on your equipment too. I like the "clean dacs" with headphones like Mr Speakers Ether but hated them with HD800.

HD800 and pavane was a match made in heaven for me. To each their own I guess. I still like seeing what measures well out of curiosity but my ears sometimes have differing opinons to measuring equipment and I am not a reviewer but a music listener I go with my ears.

All these pairing "issues" are effectively and inexpensively solved by EQ upstream of a "clean dac". If you have a "dirty DAC", like the Pavane, then EQ is likely to make things worse.

 

[Dallas2122]

I list to the gd audio R7 2021 with regenerator and with out a substantial increase is resolution , then hearing the new R7 he mk2 with regenerator this latest upgrade has a port for upgrades ,,it runs noticeably cooler and outstanding depth and size of instruments ,for $3800 a true bargain I am hoping to buy one in 3 weeks.

 

[VintageFlanker]

I list to the gd audio R7 2021 with regenerator and with out a substantial increase is resolution , then hearing the new R7 he mk2 with regenerator this latest upgrade has a port for upgrades ,,it runs noticeably cooler and outstanding depth and size of instruments ,for $3800 a true bargain I am hoping to buy one in 3 weeks.

Troll spotted.

 

[THW]

Troll spotted.

all of this talk about how various audio gear “sounds” really reminds me of a lot of the myths being propagated in the gun community and also reminds me of why i ignore the opinions of most on how well a firearm performs unless that person is an actually trained gunsmith or if said opinion is backed by actual testing and data.

 

[Dallas2122]

Why should our opinion about one product be better then. Mine or another ?
I lived In Europe a long time and GD Audio has a pretty big following Magna Audio
has sold a lot of these , the-new Holosprings 3 kte is supposed to be even better
the previous model was very good but didnot have the slam I prefer, I also own a Denafrips Terminator + in my 2 nd system and I feel that is exceptional , it’s all about synergy
every dac has its own sonic signature Using the moniker troll is a bit childish maybe you Should learn to respect others opinions ,IHave 40+ years in Audio and spend more-then a nice home on Audio ,and owned a Audio store for years so yes I can state with some expertise my opinion ,it’s just that like yourself an opinion .

 

[THW]

IHave 40+ years in Audio and spend more-then a nice home on Audio ,and owned a Audio store for years so yes I can state with some expertise my opinion ,it’s just that like yourself an opinion .

all of that doesn't really tell anyone about your actual critical listening skills though. can't remember the name of that exact paper but i'm pretty sure in one of those, it has been shown that people who run audio stores are little better than (i think?) completely untrained listeners in picking out sonic changes. and no, the training AFAIK does not involve running audio stores.

this is the equivalent of saying "i am a veteran in x conflict so i am qualified to talk about how a gun works"...which is nonsense, since being a vet doesn't necessarily mean you have the technical knowledge to actually know what is going on, since being a vet does not mean you had to service firearms at the armourer-level or worked as a professional gunsmith in your civilian life and know exactly how they work inside-out (and all too often, veterans don't actually know what they're talking about). it's kind of the same thing here.

 

[VintageFlanker]

every dac has its own sonic signature

If that would be the case, then every DAC sounds wrong.

Using the moniker troll is a bit childish maybe you Should learn to respect others opinions

Maybe you should know better where you are posting.

IHave 40+ years in Audio and spend more-then a nice home on Audio ,and owned a Audio store for years

Ah. That explains a lot. Thanks.

 

[Dallas2122]

the audio gd R7 he mk2 with power regeneration sounds excellent with dynamics and image depth most dacs can only wish for . If you
Don’t like it,then don’t buy it it’s that simple . What counts is how it sounds in your audio system nothing more or less. I will leave it at that !!

 

[THW]

If that would be the case, then every DAC sound wrong.

the other thing I find very strange is why do people automatically assume its the inherent properties of the DAC when they think they hear a difference? aren't there other things that could've happened?