Choices of eq+cossover device that is as good as direct DAC to amp?

[Pdxwayne]

I am looking for a room eq+crossover device that I can placed between my DAC and amps, but as transparent as direct DAC to amp.

In Amir's thread for PS Audio PerfectWave DirectStream, he said:
......
Next I played some of my bass heaving tracks i use for headphone testing. Here, it was easy to notice that bass impact was softented. But also, highs were exaggerated due to higher distortion. Despite loss of high frequency hearing, I found that accentuation unpleasant. WIth tracks that had lisping issues with female vocals for example, the DS DAC made that a lot worse....

This is a device with 75 sinad.

I currently own Minidsp HD 2x4 (with ~90 sinad for analog in) and I have found that adding it between my DAC and amp, I also got a softer bass and harsher high.

I am hesitant to get minidsp SHD due to analog noise issues mentioned in another thread for SHD.

Anything else? Thanks!

 

[Chrise36]

I am looking for a room eq device that I can placed between my DAC and amps, but as transparent as direct DAC to amp.

In Amir's thread for PS Audio PerfectWave DirectStream, he said:
......
Next I played some of my bass heaving tracks i use for headphone testing. Here, it was easy to notice that bass impact was softented. But also, highs were exaggerated due to higher distortion. Despite loss of high frequency hearing, I found that accentuation unpleasant. WIth tracks that had lisping issues with female vocals for example, the DS DAC made that a lot worse....

This is a device with 75 sinad.

I currently own Minidsp HD 2x4 (with ~90 sinad for analog in) and I have found that adding it between my DAC and amp, I also got a softer bass and harsher high.

I am hesitant to get minidsp SHD due to analog noise issues mentioned in another thread for SHD.

Anything else? Thanks!

There is a way to implement crossover on okto dac 8 without the need of pc and on rme devices or a very good interface like motu with pc.DSP and crossover the simplest is from ROON among many other choices if you search the threads.

 

[Pdxwayne]

There is a way to implement crossover on okto dac 8 without the need of pc and on rme devices or a very good interface like motu with pc.DSP and crossover the simplest is from ROON among many other choices if you search the threads.

Thanks! I don't want to give up my DAC yet. I especially like using it's BT function. I also stream from node2i, don't want to stream from PC. Thus I am looking for something that fit in between DAC and amp.

 

[Chrise36]

Thanks! I don't want to give up my DAC yet. I especially like using it's BT function. I also stream from node2i, don't want to stream from PC. Thus I am looking for something that fit in between DAC and amp.

The most trasparent would be line (rca) filters i think

 

[Pdxwayne]

The most trasparent would be line (rca) filters i think

Yeah, I am looking for something active where I can keep adjusting the crossover points for speakers and sub. Mainly I want a way to deal with room null at around 80hz in my living roim, but don't want to degrade the overall sound like adding minidsp hd2x4. Thanks!

 

[Bullwinkle J Moose]

I do not like the Equalizer APO and prefer Realtek's systemwide EQ, but the problem is that most DAC's do not fully support the driverless USB audio 1.0 spec

Most USB DAC's require a driver, which disables the onboard Realtek driver and EQ

The "Poor man's Peavy" option would be to use the optical input on the DAC, allowing you to either use the systemwide EQ in Windows or an outboard digital EQ like the Behringer DEQ24/96 which has optical in and optical out

Other than buying an expensive USB DAC with built in EQ, the only really "clean" option would be to Re-EQ the source material for the speakers
(BAD IDEA - but Clean)

 

[raindance]

You won't fix a null with EQ. It's probably an SBIR effect. How far are your main speakers from front and side walls?

 

[Pdxwayne]

I do not like the Equalizer APO and prefer Realtek's systemwide EQ, but the problem is that most DAC's do not fully support the driverless USB audio 1.0 spec

Most USB DAC's require a driver, which disables the onboard Realtek driver and EQ

The "Poor man's Peavy" option would be to use the optical input on the DAC, allowing you to either use the systemwide EQ in Windows or an outboard digital EQ like the Behringer DEQ24/96 which has optical in and optical out

Other than buying an expensive USB DAC with built in EQ, the only really "clean" option would be to Re-EQ the source material for the speakers
(BAD IDEA - but Clean)

Thanks! Crossover capabilities is important to me. I want to deal with 80 Hz room nulls with sub. Not able to high pass the speakers will make it hard to blend in the sub.

 

[Pdxwayne]

You won't fix a null with EQ. It's probably an SBIR effect. How far are your main speakers from front and side walls?

Yes, it is SBIR. I have limited space to place my speakers. Room is a multi purpose room, including exercise and piano practices. : )

Thus want to use sub, position differently, to help. 80 Hz is a lot of overlapping between sub and speakers without crossover. Using minidsp helps, but it also degraded overall sound quality....

 

[Chrise36]

After the DAC most active solutions are not good idea. Before the DAC is the way to go and you need a multichannel dac preferably.

 

[Pdxwayne]

After the DAC most active solutions are not good idea. Before the DAC is the way to go and you need a multichannel dac preferably.

Thanks! It is a bit disappointing to hear.

Mostly I am looking for an active crossover device that is transparent. I want to deal with room null around 80hz with sub placed properly.

 

[Bullwinkle J Moose]

After the DAC most active solutions are not good idea. Before the DAC is the way to go and you need a multichannel dac preferably.

IN the "USB" DAC is choice number 1, but costly

Digital EQ with optical input and output (or Realtek systemwide EQ) is "MY" choice number 2

Choice number 3 would be meh.....whatever

Sorry to say this, but there is really no good options for a clean (systemwide) EQ to use on the vast majority of USB DAC's

What we really need is something like a a Fabfilter systemwide EQ for Windows that works with "ALL" USB DAC's

Now there's a project for ya..........Get On It!

 

[Pdxwayne]

IN the "USB" DAC is choice number 1, but costly

Digital EQ with optical input and output (or Realtek systemwide EQ) is "MY" choice number 2

Choice number 3 would be meh.....whatever

Sorry to say this, but there is really no good options for a clean (systemwide) EQ to use on the vast majority of USB DAC's

What we really need is something like a a Fabfilter systemwide EQ for Windows that works with "ALL" USB DAC's

Now there's a project for ya..........Get On It!

Haha, I am looking for simplicity. : )

Using my smartphone to control the node2i
(coaxial out to DAC) is very convenient for me. Using my phone to stream directly to DAC via BT also easy. I am a bit hesitant to move away from that simplicity.

I am thinking that something like Anthem STR preamp might be a solution, but it is a bit too expensive and seems to have quality control issues...

 

[waynel]

Haha, I am looking for simplicity. : )

Using my smartphone to control the node2i
(coaxial out to DAC) is very convenient for me. Using my phone to stream directly to DAC via BT also easy. I am a bit hesitant to move away from that simplicity.

I am thinking that something like Anthem STR preamp might be a solution, but it is a bit too expensive.

An Anthem STR will work and it's great for HT integration and you can ditch the external DAC but it wont measure better than the MiniDSP SHD. Other options include a nanoDigi and 2 dacs, or if you want an analog crossover a used Ashly XR-1001 will work. It boggles my mind how there aren't good simple one-box solutions for 2 channel bass management.

 

[daftcombo]

I currently own Minidsp HD 2x4 (with ~90 sinad for analog in) and I have found that adding it between my DAC and amp, I also got a softer bass and harsher high.

Are you sure? I don't have the same experience with miniDSP nanoDigi followed by DACs.

Can it be assessed by measurements if real?

 

[Pdxwayne]

Are you sure? I don't have the same experience with miniDSP nanoDigi followed by DACs.

Can it be assessed by measurements if real?

My speakers are pretty hot in the 8khz region. I was complaining about a certain vocal at my other thread. It was very noticeable when minidsp was in the chain.

I took minidsp out of the chain recently and I noticed that the vocal not as harsh with DAC direct to amp.

You can check the first song at https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...educe-the-irritation-via-eq.22715/post-755786.

Please try with minidsp. Then without minidsp. Could you hear a different?

 

[daftcombo]

You can check the first song at https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...educe-the-irritation-via-eq.22715/post-755786.

Please try with minidsp. Then without minidsp. Could you hear a different?

I can't listen now (will later) but can't you EQ out the harshness in the miniDSP anyway?

 

[Pdxwayne]

I can't listen now (will later) but can't you EQ out the harshness in the miniDSP anyway?

It is the overall sound cleanliness issue too. No way to eq it back to more clean.....If minidsp itself is the issue.

Regarding measurements, both minidsp HD and gustard x16 already been measured by Amir here.

 

[GDK]

It is the overall sound cleanliness issue. No way to eq it back to more clean.....If minidsp itself is the issue.

I use a miniDSP 2x4 as a cross-over and have never noticed it affecting the sound, although I also use DRC. I listen to a lot of electronic music and expect that I would notice if it resulted in a "softened bass". I have noticed that it adds some hiss, but it's not noticeable when music is playing.

 

[Pdxwayne]

I use a miniDSP 2x4 as a cross-over and have never noticed it affecting the sound, although I also use DRC. I listen to a lot of electronic music and expect that I would notice if it resulted in a "softened bass". I have noticed that it adds some hiss, but it's not noticeable when music is playing.

Would you please explain your chain a bit more?

I am comparing minidsp with gustard x16, when using my amps (Parasound a23) and speakers (Paradigm Persona B) and sub (Paradigm Sub 15) .

What DAC would you use for direct DAC to amp if you don't use minidsp?

Please do the comparison as mentioned in post #16 if possible. With and without minidsp.

Thanks!