Message to golden-eared audiophiles posting at ASR for the first time...

[watchnerd]

To be sure, it ought to be 'Gorgonzola'. Merely my misspelling.

Oh, I thought it was some deep pun I wasn't getting.

 

[krabapple]

Both. All of them.

Any cognitive bias can have an impact.

It's not an 'either / or' situation.

You aren't teaching me anything new.

But you are ignoring audio hobby culture and merchandising, which is what I was getting at. They are primarily driven by subjective claims of audible difference. Not by the claims of 'objectivists' who may be letting a 'no difference' bias confound their blind tests. (In academic research 'false negatives' are controlled for.)

Getting subjectivists to accept the power of blind tests, much less take them, is a challenge. Getting them to accept the often belief-confounding results is another. The poster I was addressing was fretting about a molehill rather than the mountain.

 

[krabapple]

Yes, I'm sure you're right. Audiophile enjoyment comes from the hunt for perfect sound, not the achievement of it, (fortunately impossible).

Audiophiles tend to delude themselves about improvements that various components can make. For instance, that cables can make a "huge difference" to the sound is a silly meme, IMO.

On the other hand it's an objectivist meme that "all amplifiers sound the same". It would be quite a stretch to insist that a insist that a 300B tube amp sounds like a Purifi 1ET400A.

Thank heavens then that 'objectivists' don't meme that. That meme you have written is a canard made up by lazy/disingenuous 'subjectivists'.

 

[watchnerd]

You aren't teaching me anything new.

But you are ignoring audio hobby culture and merchandising, which is what I was getting at. They are primarily driven by subjective claims of audible difference. Not by the claims of 'objectivists' who may be letting a 'no difference' bias confound their blind tests. (In academic research 'false negatives' are controlled for.)

Getting subjectivists to accept the power of blind tests, much less take them, is a challenge. Getting them to accept the often belief-confounding results is another. The poster I was addressing was fretting about a molehill rather than the mountain.

In an entertainment hobby context, why is this a problem?

And why does it need to be solved?

Why does one need to change the beliefs of people who enjoy the hobby from a different angle?

And why would there be any greater chance of success at trying to get subjectivists to change their point of view today than there has been over the last several decades?

The 'Carver Challenge' after all was 45 years ago......

Other than a momentary controversy, I don't perceive that it changed the world of subjective audio reviewing, audio hobby culture, or merchandising.

 

[krabapple]

Another golden oldie of deflection. "It's just a hobby!"

I was addressing a poster who was worried about objectivist bias in audiophilia. Talk to him about taking nothingburgers too seriously.

 

[watchnerd]

Another golden oldie of deflection. "It's just a hobby!"

It's not a deflection: it's the truth.

This is an entertainment hobby. That's all it is.

I really don't care if somebody wants to spend 100x the money on cables that I spend on my cheapish Blue Jeans cables.

I feel no need to convert others.

I don't view objectivism as evangelism.

 

[krabapple]

After you've enlightened that guy I was replying to who was worried about objectivist bias, you might want to enlighten the guy who started this thread.

'Dudes, Y U care?'

Heck, ask Amir too while you're at it.

 

[watchnerd]

After you've enlightened that guy I was replying to who was worried about objectivist bias, you might want to enlighten the guy who started this thread.

'Dudes, Y U care?'

Heck, ask Amir too while you're at it.

Yep.

I've brought it up pretty regularly over the years.

 

[Blumlein 88]

In an entertainment hobby context, why is this a problem?

And why does it need to be solved?

Why does one need to change the beliefs of people who enjoy the hobby from a different angle?

And why would there be any greater chance of success at trying to get subjectivists to change their point of view today than there has been over the last several decades?

The 'Carver Challenge' after all was 45 years ago......

Other than a momentary controversy, I don't perceive that it changed the world of subjective audio reviewing, audio hobby culture, or merchandising.

I'll tell you what it did. It convinced Carver the allure of subjectivism was so strong why fight it when you can profit from it. He went on to make his own tube gear, and other gear all priced way on up there so it had audiophile cred.

The same thing has happened to Bruno Putzeys. His Purify line is a return to affordable performance, but his Mola Mola work and expensive cables he was involved with were all simply seeing you couldn't stamp out the market so you might as well make money from it.

 

[Gorgonzola]

Thank heavens then that 'objectivists' don't meme that. That meme you have written is a canard made up by lazy/disingenuous 'subjectivists'.

Unless I gravely misunderstand, "All amps sound the same" is what our brother SIY says quite regularly; (or to be fair, he says in ABX test nobody can tell which is which is approx. the same thing).

This discussion is trending in the usual direction, so I'm calling it quits.

 

[watchnerd]

I'll tell you what it did. It convinced Carver the allure of subjectivism was so strong why fight it when you can profit from it. He went on to make his own tube gear, and other gear all priced way on up there so it had audiophile cred.

The same thing has happened to Bruno Putzeys. His Purify line is a return to affordable performance, but his Mola Mola work and expensive cables he was involved with were all simply seeing you couldn't stamp out the market so you might as well make money from it.

Excellent point.

I'd put Nelson Pass in that camp, too.

 

[ahofer]

5 mg?

Too low.

That's like 1/2 an edible.

It’s one standard edible in the new pot Capitol of the Northeast (Great Barrington, MA).

I’ve heard people have some issues with edibles, so I’m thinking you should start slow. (For a laugh, look up Maureen Dowd’s edible experiment, she wrote it up).

But that’s just what I’ve heard. Never done such a thing myself

 

[watchnerd]

It’s one standard edible in the new pot Capitol of the Northeast (Great Barrington, MA).

I’ve heard people have some issues with edibles, so I’m thinking you should start slow. (For a laugh, look up Maureen Dowd’s edible experiment, she wrote it up).

But that’s just what I’ve heard. Never done such a thing myself

Start??

I'm way past starting.

 

[BDWoody]

may I suggest about 5mg of thc?

Is there a grown up table?

 

[watchnerd]

It’s one standard edible in the new pot Capitol of the Northeast (Great Barrington, MA).

It's unsurprising that the standard MA cannabis dosage is half strength compared to WA...

 

[Robin L]

It's unsurprising that the standard MA cannabis dosage is half strength compared to WA...

As a fellow Washingtonian . . .

Seriously, this would be an interesting area of double-blind research: registering the subjective sense of improved sound quality/musical quality in the presence of specific dosages of cannabis. Controlled DBT, placebo edibles, audio gear of known quality, auditors get to choose program material. What's been reported so far about the intersection of Music & Cannabis has been anecdotal, but this sort of project could illuminate the chemical conduits of consciousness.

 

[ahofer]

Is there a grown up table?

Start??

I'm way past starting.

look, a recommendation is typically for those who *haven’t yet* done something, not, in this case, Washingtonians with a standing order from the local dispensary.

If we are suggesting a *first time* investment in this new sound..tweak, I..er..audiophiles should not be embarrassed to have a child-like sensitivity to the..dr...er....new component.

The legal stuff isn’t the ditchweed of boomer childhood. It doesn’t take much to completely fascinate the user with the incredible wash of details in sound...and not much more to put him to bed for the night.

i say think of it as EQ. One should start with a wee bit.

 

[pads]

You haven't heard anything till you've experienced a live 70s era Rush concert high on mushrooms.
(Which is possibly where my once golden ears finally gave up and left the building.)

 

[watchnerd]

10-15 mg if I‘m listening in mono via SPU,

 

[Obetwo]

I could use some help/opinion.

I want to get a new Receiver and use it primarily as a Processor for streaming music at low to medium sound levels for 3 zones and some Home theater.

So, Before ASR, and in search of the "perfect warm holographic sound", I have already acquired 3 amps, Emotiva Gen3 7 channel , Emotiva Gen3 3 channel DR3, and a 2 channel PrimaLuna tube amplifier.

I've kinda narrowed it down to Denon 8500H, Marantz SR8015, Denon 6700H or maybe even the Denon 4700H.

If I'm using any of these for just their processor, would there be much of a difference in the quality of the sound?

Will the Denon's sound essentially the same as the Marantz,?