Why do Michael Jackson albums sound better than anything released in recent years?

[andreasmaaan]

I'm curious @Pearljam5000, when you say these recordings sound better than anything else, what are you comparing them to?

 

[Prep74]

Just a note of warning, my friend Ian says you can't compare the DR readings (TT meter anyway) of vinyl to CD...

Why you can’t measure vinyl with the TT Meter

To a lesser extent, nor between vinyl for that matter given individual differences in turntables/carts/phono sections and the actual record pressing.

 

[Pearljam5000]

I'm curious @Pearljam5000, when you say these recordings sound better than anything else, what are you comparing them to?

Almost to anything else
His albums sound amazing even on crappy 5$ computer speakers.
Take "Scream" or "Jam" for example , the bass is amazing (and also everything else).

 

[andreasmaaan]

Almost to anything else
His albums sound amazing even on crappy 5$ computer speakers.
Take "Scream" or "Jam" for example , the bass is amazing (and also everything else).

Ha, ok. Maybe a better way to get at what I'm interested in would be to ask: What else sounds as good or almost as good in your opinion?

 

[kipman725]

Check out "Welcome to the pleasuredome (1985 Fruitness mix)" In some ways this is a very no audiophile recording (a bit of sibilance on vocals, a lot of outboard equipment used) but to me its a great example of what you can do with analog gear, time and money. Huge sound when turned up on a powerful system.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Ha, ok. Maybe a better way to get at what I'm interested in would be to ask: What else sounds as good or almost as good in your opinion?

These i also like
I don't like boring audiophile music albums, i like real music that happens to also be recorded well.
Billie Eilish also sounds great.

 

[tuga]

You might be a bit biased by your affinity for MJ's music ...

I was just about to write this.

 

[tuga]

These i also like
I don't like boring audiophile music albums, i like real music that happens to also be recorded well.
Billie Eilish also sounds great.
View attachment 107361

In Rainbows unfortunately suffers from compression (avg DR = 5) and massive brickwalling.

 

[Pearljam5000]

In Rainbows unfortunately suffers from compression (avg DR = 5) and massive brickwalling.

Is there a "best sounding albums" thread or something?

 

[Soniclife]

In Rainbows unfortunately suffers from compression (avg DR = 5) and massive brickwalling.

It still sound great though, as did the mp3 version they released first when they didn't have a record deal, possibly there best sounding record.

MJ had effectively unlimited luxury studio time and money, with some of the best people in the industry, few artists these days have such luxury.

As already mentioned Welcome to the Pleasuredome has some stunning sounding tracks, Trevor Horn knew what he was doing.

 

[andreasmaaan]

These i also like
I don't like boring audiophile music albums, i like real music that happens to also be recorded well.

That's interesting. The production, mixing and mastering on each of these albums is very different IMO.

@tuga already pointed out the big difference in DNR between In Rainbows and early-mid career MJ. Also Aphex Twin's Syro is a low-DNR album (CD version, anyway). So I don't think it's DNR that accounts for your taste here.

Recordings can also use quite a lot of compression on individual tracks, while avoiding large amounts of mastering compression (especially limiting), and still maintain a healthy DNR. A lot of MJ's 80s-90s albums tend to fall into this category IMO.

In terms of other mixing/mastering factors, tonal balance is very important, both of individual tracks (voices, instruments, synths, etc.) and of the mix as a whole. And spatial effects are the other area that really makes a difference IMO. Depending on the type of recording, this can come down to both/either the mic arrangement/recording space and/or the mixing /mastering.

More modern, especially more electronic-oriented recordings (e.g. later career Aphex Twin and Radiohead) also tend to involve more sophisticated spatial effects, made possible by DSP.

 

[Soniclife]

And for an example of early all digital that sounds great try the 1st Tracy Chapman album, regularly referenced here as sounding great.
https://www.mixonline.com/recording/classic-track-fast-car-tracy-chapman-427573

 

[Feelas]

In Rainbows unfortunately suffers from compression (avg DR = 5) and massive brickwalling.

Compression is also a production technique, the same with heavily distorted mixes of e.g. japanese psychedelia, where DR3 is a design decision.

Audiophile production is nonsense in itself, to be honest. Just one way of producing and neither one is correct.

 

[tuga]

Compression is also a production technique, the same with heavily distorted mixes of e.g. japanese psychedelia, where DR3 is a design decision.

Audiophile production is nonsense in itself, to be honest. Just one way of producing and neither one is correct.

I listen mostly to classical music and some vintage jazz, but I happen to like Radiohead and a few other bands and singer-songwriters.
In Rainbows sounds quite good but a bit "loud" at times, and I understand that part of the brickwalling and compression can and is being used to produce a particular effect. Studio produced music is not supposed to portray reality like classical music recordings and thus should not be following the same rules, but as most of us have experienced some tracks are issued with appalling amounts of compression and sound like poo (not just remasters), such as R.E.M.'s final single "We All Go Back To Where We Belong"...

 

[dorirod]

Mj sounds like dog balls (joke) compared to todays best stuff....you just have to find them....try skazi - power of god, genesis - shakti or hoff ensemble - polarity for example........then put Mj back...

Wow, Phil Collins has really taken a left turn with his band.

 

[dorirod]

Is there a "best sounding albums" thread or something?

Not quite, but maybe you might like some of the suggestions here:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s-for-well-recorded-mastered-rock-music.9782/

 

[Oukkidoukki]

Wow, Phil Collins has really taken a left turn with his band.

Yeah, it's some other genesis i guess

 

[infinitesymphony]

That's interesting. The production, mixing and mastering on each of these albums is very different IMO.

@tuga already pointed out the big difference in DNR between In Rainbows and early-mid career MJ. Also Aphex Twin's Syro is a low-DNR album (CD version, anyway). So I don't think it's DNR that accounts for your taste here.

Recordings can also use quite a lot of compression on individual tracks, while avoiding large amounts of mastering compression (especially limiting), and still maintain a healthy DNR. A lot of MJ's 80s-90s albums tend to fall into this category IMO.

Exactly, and it's the intersection of those choices with the music that makes it work. MJ's production decisions may not work as well in other contexts.

Check out what works for MJ:
-drums way up in the mix, especially the snare which is often a layered and panned multi-sample of different snares
-minimal compression on the drum bus -- drums snap
-a lot of space left between parts to emphasize rhythmic syncopation; pads and long-tone instruments are pushed way down in the mix
-almost everything is synthesized except the vocal and occasional real instrument like guitar -- volume and velocity is controlled and even
-vocal surprisingly far down and blended into the mix compared to contemporary mixes -- can turn up the music without the vocal getting shouty
-layered background vocals with signature tremolo are remarkably consistent from take to take

There's a lot to learn from the production, and producers like Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis used this approach to layering and mixing with quite a few artists in the late '80s / early '90s new jack swing era. Can we guess something about a person's broader tastes because they like this music and production style combo, maybe not.

 

[infinitesymphony]

In Rainbows unfortunately suffers from compression (avg DR = 5) and massive brickwalling.

Compression is also a production technique, the same with heavily distorted mixes of e.g. japanese psychedelia, where DR3 is a design decision.

Right you are.

Bob Ludwig, mastering engineer for the ages, mastered 'In Rainbows' and actually commented directly about this topic during a presentation:

(transcription below from this site)

“This is a very loud record, but it was designed to be that way. This is a record where every distortion, just like Beck Morning Phase, every distortion you hear on there has been carefully thought about. The Beck Morning Phase record, we had done clean mixes of some of those songs. And then when we came out with it, some stereophile people thought it must be from an mp3 because of this and that.
...
Every Radiohead record, we just keep working on it until Nigel’s happy. It’s funny because - I don’t think it’s telling things out of school - some of these records sound nothing like the mix. You’ll be surprised at what some of the mixes sound like, but they’re all malleable. What I ended up with is what he was imagining. So sometimes these records go quickly. Sometimes they take a very long time, it’s very interesting how it goes. But it’s never put out until he’s like, 'That’s it.'"

 

[Pearljam5000]

Right you are.

Bob Ludwig, mastering engineer for the ages, mastered 'In Rainbows' and actually commented directly about this topic during a presentation:

(transcription below from this site)

“This is a very loud record, but it was designed to be that way. This is a record where every distortion, just like Beck Morning Phase, every distortion you hear on there has been carefully thought about. The Beck Morning Phase record, we had done clean mixes of some of those songs. And then when we came out with it, some stereophile people thought it must be from an mp3 because of this and that.
...
Every Radiohead record, we just keep working on it until Nigel’s happy. It’s funny because - I don’t think it’s telling things out of school - some of these records sound nothing like the mix. You’ll be surprised at what some of the mixes sound like, but they’re all malleable. What I ended up with is what he was imagining. So sometimes these records go quickly. Sometimes they take a very long time, it’s very interesting how it goes. But it’s never put out until he’s like, 'That’s it.'"

It's a shame" OK Computer" sounds bad(the original and remastered version)