Under $200 DAC recommendations?

[MDAguy]

Why?
If my understanding of typical DAC construction isn't completely wrong, and ignoring the relative or subjective differences between DAC chips and how the engineer has employed them and their feature set, once the D/A conversion has occurred the signal is put through an output amplifier.
I don't think anyone would dispute that different amplifier designs and the various levels of component quality have different sonic signatures, so why would the output stage of a DAC be any different?

I'd be willing to bet that the factors affecting the quality and tone of a DAC have a lot more to do with the build quality of it's respective analogue components, their isolation from noise from the digital side, the power supply(ies), and box/chassis, etc.. than the actual digital processing, especially when using off the shelf type DAC chips from ESS, etc..

Good engineering should be a given I suppose, but maybe in some cases, that's also a problem...

 

[MDAguy]

I've no problem at all with people buying expensive gear. There's more to things we own than their functionality.

Having said this I've come to embrace the beauty of the bargain product, particularly when I look at my JDS Atom HPA and my Topping D10s! My wife didn't quite embrace this when a D10s appeared on my work desk. She asked what the f**k is a CB radio doing in your study?!!!

Reflecting on this thread, I do think the Loxjie ticks all the boxes and exhibits the beauty of the bargain product.

I fuse the two concepts. Frugality / bargain hunting and acquisition of expensive gear... how you might ask? I drive my dealers crazy with demands of massive and nearly unsustainable discounts (many dealers simply then refuse to deal to me haha).... then if (I should say when) I get bored with something and go to sell it, I don't take a bath! I even occasionally make money or break even at worse.

 

[threni]

Let me know if there is a better thread to post this in.

Here you go:
https://www.head-fi.org/forums/

Just make sure that should you feel the need to resort to physics, information theory, a/b testing or measurements in your posts you stick strictly to the one forum where they allow such heresy (the "sound science" one). The "audiophiles" and advertisers there seem happy with that concession.

 

[Raindog123]

Looking for a DAC with USB input and decent performance (SINAD) that has a nice physical volume/attenuation knob and display, and a remote control, under $200. What are my options here? Loxjie D30? Topping DX3 Pro? What else?

Thanks!

For what it's worth... I use Schiit Modi 3/Magni. Mainly for headphone listening, but the duo can be used as a DAC/preamp too -- I have tried it with my NAD C375BEE (used Magni while bypassing NAD's preamp section) and Wharfedale Diamonds 11.5... A volume knob (and very decent sound/SINAD), but no display or remote.

 

[volkl77n]

a lot more to do with the build quality of it's respective analogue components

This is exactly what I was getting at.

 

[MDAguy]

For what it's worth... I use Schiit Modi 3/Magni. Mainly for headphone listening, but the duo can be used as a DAC/preamp too -- I have tried it with my NAD C375BEE (used Magni while bypassing NAD's preamp section) and Wharfedale Diamonds 11.5... A volume knob (and very decent sound/SINAD), but no display or remote.

I'm a big fan of Schitt... I mean they make decent stuff, and it's made in Southern California (not the easiest state to do business in btw)... Not sure how their stuff measures, but if I couldn't hear the difference, I'd go with it just for their business ethics.

 

[ichonderoga]

And which ones on this list come with a volume knob, volume display, and remote?

None of them. Was hoping no one noticed ;-)

 

[ZolaIII]

And which ones on this list come with a volume knob, volume display, and remote?

Probably none as the futures you are looking for all together are in contradiction with each other and in contradiction regarding the cost of the device. Why would a line out need a volume control? Sure there's need for a preamp in some situations but on the integrated DAC at best that's secondary concern (when designing one). Volume controls will be digital which to a certain extent defies the purpose of volume knob. On the other hand construction of a good switching volume control by knob is both expensive and complex so please don't expect to find it on low priced products from small brands. It's a heretige of big players who survived the fall such as Denon but that will certainly cost you more. Don't get me wrong i also like volume knobs but certainly can live without them. For me it's about; performance/price/usability, convenience comes as desired but not essential.
Best luck to you in finding what you want.

 

[escape2]

Probably none as the futures you are looking for all together are in contradiction with each other and in contradiction regarding the cost of the device.

not in contradiction regarding cost. I mentioned two such devices in my OP. I was just asking if there are any others.

 

[Robin L]

The Topping E30 has everything but the knob.

 

[tvrgeek]

Why?
If my understanding of typical DAC construction isn't completely wrong, and ignoring the relative or subjective differences between DAC chips and how the engineer has employed them and their feature set, once the D/A conversion has occurred the signal is put through an output amplifier.
I don't think anyone would dispute that different amplifier designs and the various levels of component quality have different sonic signatures, so why would the output stage of a DAC be any different?

They should not be very different, though it seems some can screw anything up. Low level buffers are not hard any more. Power supplies only a little harder. Really, no excuse for a DAC or any line level device to not be an order of magnitude better than human hearing.

Happy with my Schiit, though I really should have bought the Modi-3 instead of Asgard or the Atom DAC and amp. I sure can't see a reason to pay more than $100 for a DAC these days unless you need additional features like a phones amp. It also seems that $100 buys you a superb amp. More money adds distortion generators like tubes and balanced outputs.

 

[ZolaIII]

Well I told you best to my knowledge what would fit your preferences the best based on my criteria. What I got where stupid comments about display (which device actually has a rather large one & dB volume displayed when in preamp mode). I tried to explain you the difficulty of a good digit volume knob implementation and it cost's both resources and time to market. In short so far there's no such DAC's at least not that I am aware of.
Best regards and have nice day.

 

[Sukie]

Well I told you best to my knowledge what would fit your preferences the best based on my criteria. What I got where stupid comments about display (which device actually has a rather large one & dB volume displayed when in preamp mode). I tried to explain you the difficulty of a good digit volume knob implementation and it cost's both resources and time to market. In short so far there's no such DAC's at least not that I am aware of.
Best regards and have nice day.

I popped out for a pizza and that descended quickly. The OP set out the criteria and asked for any suggestions. You may well like volume knobs but can live without them (same for me, as it goes), but that wasn't the question. Also, if the OP is after a DAC with a display, then simply pointing this out in reply to your earlier post isn't a "stupid comment".

I rather thought that the point of the forum is to facilitate helpful conversations. Surely a reasonable question deserves an in-scope reasonable answer.

 

[ZolaIII]

I popped out for a pizza and that descended quickly. The OP set out the criteria and asked for any suggestions. You may well like volume knobs but can live without them (same for me, as it goes), but that wasn't the question. Also, if the OP is after a DAC with a display, then simply pointing this out in reply to your earlier post isn't a "stupid comment".

I rather thought that the point of the forum is to facilitate helpful conversations. Surely a reasonable question deserves an in-scope reasonable answer.

Actually disregard my proposition and about everything else. After all its over 200$.
Really not worth it.

 

[wasnotwasnotwas]

Your request for a volume knob is the tricky part. At this price this limits you to DAC/HPA combos. Both the Loxjie D30 and the Topping DX3 Pro are good choices. I can't think of any others off the top of my head. Are you specifically wanting a combo or is it just a DAC that you're after? A number of the DACs in this price range come with remotes that can be used to alter the volume, thus avoiding the need for a volume knob.

Does the volume control on the topping combos (DX3/7 etc etc ) just control the headamp or also the feed out of the back? I've never experienced any first hand. On my SMSL M500 the knob controls both.

 

[Sukie]

Does the volume control on the topping combos (DX3/7 etc etc ) just control the headamp or also the feed out of the back? I've never experienced any first hand. On my SMSL M500 the knob controls both.

As far as I know it controls both. It looks like it's digital attenuation.

 

[conuss]

Why would a line out need a volume control? Sure there's need for a preamp in some situations but on the integrated DAC at best that's secondary concern (when designing one). Volume controls will be digital which to a certain extent defies the purpose of volume knob.

Do you think a properly executed digital volume control will do more harm than an analog volume control in an integrated amplifier? What narrow-minded these dreamers-inventors of power amplifiers!

 

[ZolaIII]

Do you think a properly executed digital volume control will do more harm than an analog volume control in an integrated amplifier? What narrow-minded these dreamers-inventors of power amplifiers!

Quite opposite but then again it took time to get done properly. I just love when you rip it out of the context.

 

[conuss]

Quite opposite but then again it took time to get done properly. I just love when you rip it out of the context.

If I understand correctly, you agree that now that it is time to create the right digital DAC volume controls, there is no reason to worry that they are of poor quality, and therefore may safely proceed with the production of power amplifiers for digital pre-DACs? ))
So now you understand why a line-out needs a digital volume control?

 

[wasnotwasnotwas]

If I understand correctly, you agree that now that it is time to create the right digital DAC volume controls, there is no reason to worry that they are of poor quality, and therefore may safely proceed with the production of power amplifiers for digital pre-DACs? ))
So now you understand why a line-out needs a digital volume control?

I haven't the first clue what either of you is saying. Nor, it would seem, do you two. Give it a rest, hey?