Ask me about Bitcoin/Crypto investing

[dallasjustice]

IOTA has solved this problem. Late comers to digital currency will have an advantage over bitcoin, IMO.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Iota/comments/7gwtpp/would_pow_on_the_tangle_use_moreless_electricity/

At present the electricity used for processing the bitcoin block chain is the same as the consumption as the country of Estonia. In my view this problem will limit the usability of block chain.

There are several proposals to reduce the processing required, but these reduce security and hence trust

Does anyone think these problems can be overcome?

 

[dallasjustice]

I guess the benefits are so obvious that bitcoiners don’t need to make their case other than quote the latested price. The paper you linked to doesn’t listed any benefits.

The originator's intentions:

https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

 

[RayDunzl]

The paper you linked to doesn’t listed any benefits.

"A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution"

I suppose it is up to the user to decide if that is a benefit or not.

Isn't that typical of any invention?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptocurrency

"A cryptocurrency (or crypto currency) is a digital asset designed to work as a medium of exchange that uses cryptography to secure its transactions, to control the creation of additional units, and to verify the transfer of assets.[1][2][3] Cryptocurrencies are classified as a subset of digital currencies and are also classified as a subset of alternative currencies and virtual currencies.

Bitcoin, created in 2009, was the first decentralized cryptocurrency.[4]"

 

[dallasjustice]

That’s not an argument for using bitcoin. That’s merely a description of what it was intended to be.

"A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution"

I suppose it is up to the user to decide if that is a benefit or not.

 

[watchnerd]

That’s not an argument for using bitcoin. That’s merely a description of what it was intended to be.

Oh, but for the anarchist / anti-sovereign-fiat money crowd, that is the big argument for using it:

freedom from financial institutions and governments

 

[dallasjustice]

Okay. I’m with them in spirit. But to make an argument, one must explain why bitcoin is a superior medium of exchange to the thousands of alternatives.

This reminds me of the global warming debate. It started off “global warming.” But when the data began to show much more benign (if non-existent) warming trend, the argument became “climate change.”

Bitcoin has undergone the same change of purpose.

As you point out, Satoshi invented bitcoin so that “cash” could be easily, quickly,securely and cheaply exchanged throughout the world. Things have changed since then. Bitcoin has utterly failed to function as a medium of exchange (“cash”). Now that it’s apparent it will never function as “cash”, the bitcoiners now don’t talk about using it as a medium of exchange.

Bitcoin is now an “asset.” Most of the economic illiterates who jumped on the bandwagon now refer to bitcoin as “gold 2.0.” They will tell you that bitcoin is a “disruptive technology” and that it has/will displace gold. See the Winklevoss twins recent claims as the new talking point for bitcoin mania:

Oh, but for the anarchist / anti-sovereign-fiat money crowd, that is the big argument for using it.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/09/bit...trillion-dollar-value-for-cryptocurrency.html
freedom from financial institutions and governments

 

[watchnerd]

Okay. I’m with them in spirit. But to make an argument, one must explain why bitcoin is a superior medium of exchange to the thousands of alternatives.

This reminds me of the global warming debate. It started off “global warming.” But when the data began to show much more benign (if non-existent) warming trend, the argument became “climate change.”

Bitcoin has undergone the same change of purpose.

As you point out, Satoshi invented bitcoin so that “cash” could be easily, quickly,securely and cheaply exchanged throughout the world. Things have changed since then. Bitcoin has utterly failed to function as a medium of exchange (“cash”). Now that it’s apparent it will never function as “cash”, the bitcoiners now don’t talk about using it as a medium of exchange.

Bitcoin is now an “asset.” Most of the economic illiterates who jumped on the bandwagon now refer to bitcoin as “gold 2.0.” They will tell you that bitcoin is a “disruptive technology” and that it has/will displace gold. See the Winklevoss twins recent claims as the new talking point for bitcoin mania:

Yes, to really work as a medium of exchange, a currency really needs to be moderately inflationary -- the move away from the gold standard taught us this.

Litecoin seems to be more economically appropriate as a medium of exchange.

As for the 'asset issue', the problem Bitcoin has now is a liquidity trap...something like 40% of the value is held by 10,000 people. The market makers can't liquidate their holdings in large amounts without tanking the price.

 

[RayDunzl]

something like 40% of the value is held by 10,000 people.

1,000 is the quoted number.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...1-000-people-who-own-40-percent-of-the-market

 

[watchnerd]

1,000 is the quoted number.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...1-000-people-who-own-40-percent-of-the-market

Thanks, fixed.

 

[dallasjustice]

gold standard taught us this.

This is a myth. The gold standard failed because the gold price was fixed too low per government set exchange rate. Murray Rothbard wrote the correct history on this.
https://mises.org/library/monetary-breakdown-west

 

[watchnerd]

This is a myth. The gold standard failed because the gold price was fixed too low per government set exchange rate. Murray Rothbard wrote the correct history on this.
https://mises.org/library/monetary-breakdown-west

I didn't say the gold standard failed. I said that the move away the gold standard and towards inflationary currency policies has shown to increase the ease of a given currency becoming a common medium of exchange.

 

[dallasjustice]

Bitcoin has moderate inflation. Gold has moderate inflation. In fact, all currencies are inflated. That fact doesn’t make a currency succeed or fail. The argument that currency inflation is needed to spur GDP is a Milton Friedman Monterist relic which has been totally disproven since 2008. Central Banks have never created as much new currency as they have in the last ten years. Notwithstanding this unbelievable monetary expansion, we have experienced the weakest recovery following any recessionary period in history. Monetarism is a dead end.

I didn't say the gold standard failed. I said that the move away the gold standard and towards inflationary currency policies has shown to increase the ease of a given currency becoming a common medium of exchange.

 

[watchnerd]

Bitcoin has moderate inflation. Gold has moderate inflation. In fact, all currencies are inflated. That fact doesn’t make a currency succeed or fail. The argument that currency inflation is needed to spur GDP is a Milton Friedman Monterist relic which has been totally disproven since 2008. Central Banks have never created as much new currency as they have in the last ten years. Notwithstanding this unbelievable monetary expansion, we have experienced the weakest recovery following any recessionary period in history. Monetarism is a dead end.

I'm not talking value, I'm talking money supply.

Bitcoin has a deflationary money supply -- fewer and fewer are being made and eventually there will be no new ones.

 

[NorthSky]

Lord! I thought there was already an ASR thread about bitcoin.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/anyone-into-itcoin.2118/#post-57369

That is nothing @ all Michael. There were some news recently on several TV channels and social medias like Twitter all saying the same thing.
It had to do with a simple mistake between two dates; September 4 and September 14. They all used the wrong date, the former, but the later was the right one.

I'm just mentioning because it's tough to keep track of what was yesterday and what is today.

 

[NorthSky]

There was, and still is.

This thread was intended to be educational for those interested, but was soon trashed.

Oh, and my thread wasn't intended to be intelligently educational, Ray?

Lol

 

[watchnerd]

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/10/bitcoin-futures-set-to-trade-on-cboe-sunday-evening.html

 

[NorthSky]

Oh, it's rebounding.

 

[watchnerd]

Oh, it's rebounding.

Really low volume, though. Then again, it's Sunday.

 

[RayDunzl]

Really low volume, though. Then again, it's Sunday.

It's Monday everywhere else.

6:00 PM Sunday, in New York, NY is
8:00 AM Monday, in Tokyo, Japan

6:00 PM Sunday, in New York, NY is
12:00 PM Monday, in Wellington, New Zealand

 

[watchnerd]

It's Monday everywhere else.

6:00 PM Sunday, in New York, NY is
8:00 AM Monday, in Tokyo, Japan

6:00 PM Sunday, in New York, NY is
12:00 PM Monday, in Wellington, New Zealand

Yep, volume has gone up, too.