TV Sales Dying?

[beefkabob]

I think what's really hurting the market today is the constant dividing of available programing between more and more sources. New streaming providers are popping up every day, trying to get yet another $10-20 a month to give you what you used to get before from other included providers. How much of this crap can Joe Consumer afford? I also think the quality of programing from many is hurting due to the division of what is really a fairly static amount of $ from advertisers. You can only slice that pie into so many pieces.

Disney+Hulu+ESPN for 13 a month
Netflix 16 a month
Amazon Prime 9 a month or 10 total with a year of prime shipping too
HBO 15 a month

That's all anybody is gonna need for premium shows. And cheaper if you prepay a year.

I'm going to buy a TV in the next month or two. Either an ultra short throw projector for a 120" screen, an 85" LED, or a 77" OLED. Completely light controlled room.

 

[Sal1950]

That's all anybody is gonna need for premium shows. And cheaper if you prepay a year.

And then add in the cost of the HD basic cable channels or don't you think you'll miss them?

I haven't seen what a modern reasonably priced projector is capable of today.
Will you be comfortable doing all your viewing in that dark room?
As I mentioned I'm looking at the 85" LED as my next buy, once burnned twice shy, I'm staying away from OLED until burnin is totally cured.

 

[beefkabob]

And then add in the cost of the HD basic cable channels or don't you think you'll miss them?

I haven't seen what a modern reasonably priced projector is capable of today.
Will you be comfortable doing all your viewing in that dark room?
As I mentioned I'm looking at the 85" LED as my next buy, once burnned twice shy, I'm staying away from OLED until burnin is totally cured.

Torrenting cures all ills. There's also OTA.

The projector needs to be bright enough for watching a football game with normal room light. 3000 lumens should do that. Maybe 2500 is enough.

 

[watchnerd]

Disney+Hulu+ESPN for 13 a month
Netflix 16 a month
Amazon Prime 9 a month or 10 total with a year of prime shipping too
HBO 15 a month

That's all anybody is gonna need for premium shows. And cheaper if you prepay a year.

And then add in the cost of the HD basic cable channels or don't you think you'll miss them?

We haven't had cable TV, of any, kind, for 3 years.

We don't find ourselves missing broadcast TV / HD basic cable.

Our streaming services are:

Netflix
Amazon Prime
HBO

And even among those, we don't keep up with all the content on our watch list.

I might have to check out Disney to see 'The Mandalorian', but not until I've finished watching 'Altered Carbon'.

Hardly any of this viewing is done via the TV in our living room.

Per the article, it's mostly on tablets, computers, laptops.

 

[Jimbob54]

Today's TV's are absolutely amazing! I love my Sony 75XBR940D and am looking forward to soon replacing it with an 85.
Do you remember fiddling with the rabbit ears to get a decent picture, or constantly tuning the Vertical Hold to stop the picture from rolling? Or how about seeing the colors of faces change from purple to green to red, etc with every show or channel change, or the grainy, fuzzy picture from you VHS player running at the 8 hour speed. LOL I could go on but I think you all get it by now.. A huge wonderful improvement in the picture quality for the average consumer while the price per screen inch has fallen dramatically over the last few decades. It wasn't that long ago, sometime around 2000 that I paid around $3K for a 50" rear projection set that weighted 250 lbs, got a washed out, crappy picture, had the bottom right corner burned in from channel ID's, ugh.

When I'm home either the TV is on or the HiFi is playing music. Yea I admit to watching a lot of TV, something I think is true of many more around here than will admit it. Of the posters here claiming to "never watching TV or only a few hours a month", I believe that at least 50% are trying to feed us a fairytale, believing that admitting to TV viewing will cast them in a poor light with reference to their taste, education, or intelligence. There's a lot of very poor programing tailored to the lowest possible level, but there is also a ton of excellent programing available tailored to just about any interest or taste.
Quit trying to blow smoke up my butt all you "I never watch TV" folk, I don't believe you.

I think what's really hurting the market today is the constant dividing of available programing between more and more sources. New streaming providers are popping up every day, trying to get yet another $10-20 a month to give you what you used to get before from other included providers. How much of this crap can Joe Consumer afford? I also think the quality of programing from many is hurting due to the division of what is really a fairly static amount of $ from advertisers. You can only slice that pie into so many pieces.

Utterly agree. Managed to snag D+ for about £40 for the year preorder but even then, thats a lot for what amounts to the Mandalorian plus the Disney films for the Boy to watch. Add Netflix and AMZ Prime to the tab and I must be on £250 pa for non broadcast stuff. Not cheap!

 

[MattHooper]

Torrenting cures all ills.

Maybe it cures yours; it helps cause mine. I work in the film industry and me and many of those in my industry saw our pay decline once people were able to easily steal content via torrenting etc. Our pay never recovered. So...if you are torrenting movies and other content you'd otherwise have to pay for....thanks for doing your part to keep us swimming against that tide. Can you do some free work for us?

 

[watchnerd]

Maybe it cures yours; it helps cause mine. I work in the film industry and me and many of those in my industry saw our pay decline once people were able to easily steal content via torrenting etc. Our pay never recovered. So...if you are torrenting movies and other content you'd otherwise have to pay for....thanks for doing your part to keep us swimming against that tide. Can you do some free work for us?

Torrenting is way too much work.

Stealing is too much effort, too many steps to find good content, download it, store it on a NAS or whatever, have a home theater PC to play it from, etc, etc.

In contrast, my TV has apps for all my streaming services built in, accessible via a remote.

Streaming is so cheap and easy I can't see why anyone bothers pirating these days.

 

[Matias]

After 10 years I just bought a new 65" LG TV. It's great, the family loves it. Great buy in isolation and stay at home times.

 

[watchnerd]

sales

View attachment 62870

So ~10% total growth in 7 years...

That's pretty flat.

 

[beefkabob]

Maybe it cures yours; it helps cause mine. I work in the film industry and me and many of those in my industry saw our pay decline once people were able to easily steal content via torrenting etc. Our pay never recovered. So...if you are torrenting movies and other content you'd otherwise have to pay for....thanks for doing your part to keep us swimming against that tide. Can you do some free work for us?

I have paid access to Prime, HBO, Netflix, and Tidal. I don't use any of them. The ways that DRM gets in the way of using media are myriad.
I can only assume that you are referring to this:

Honestly, ever since sheet music piracy started, nobody has ever made money in entertainment.

Massively profitable media companies cut your pay and used piracy as an excuse. They even got you to believe it.

 

[kn0ppers]

Honestly, ever since sheet music piracy started, nobody has ever made money in entertainment.

Massively profitable media companies cut your pay and used piracy as an excuse.

Those two statements right after another seem kind of contradictory. I also don't think vast exaggerations are helpful.

 

[beefkabob]

Those two statements right after another seem kind of contradictory. I also don't think vast exaggerations are helpful.

First statement was used sarcastic. I pointed out an example of the same thinking from over a hundred years ago, a statement that was obviously untrue. OK, it was exaggerated.
Second statement is the argument made to me.

 

[Sal1950]

Hardly any of this viewing is done via the TV in our living room.
Per the article, it's mostly on tablets, computers, laptops.

That's like listening to your stored library of HD music files on your phone using only the built in speakers.
What a waste of all that technology and hard work by the video and audio engineers.
Yuk

 

[Blumlein 88]

Torrenting is way too much work.

Stealing is too much effort, too many steps to find good content, download it, store it on a NAS or whatever, have a home theater PC to play it from, etc, etc.

In contrast, my TV has apps for all my streaming services built in, accessible via a remote.

Streaming is so cheap and easy I can't see why anyone bothers pirating these days.

I'm not supporting stealing anything. But if torrenting is too much work, you aren't doing it right.

You run into cases where you'd like access to something and are willing to pay, but the rights holders make you jump thru hoops or won't let it be available in your region of the world stuff like that. Torrenting is quick and easy vs that.

It also looks pretty clear that when rights holders make content easy and convenient pirating goes way down. People pay for convenience.

I also am dubious in current conditions that pirating is much of an issue for profits generated by content. If you could get clean data, I'd be very surprised if torrenting cuts income by 5%. That isn't an excuse to say torrenting is small potatoes if you want to do it do it. It is recognizing the fact that torrenting isn't keeping artists from making a living if they otherwise aren't.

 

[beefkabob]

That's like listening to your stored library of HD music files on your phone using only the built in speakers.
What a waste of all that technology and hard work by the video and audio engineers.
Yuk

Depends on the content. The Matrix belongs on a big screen. Rick and Morty is fine anywhere.

 

[Sal1950]

Rick and Morty is fine anywhere.

WHO?

 

[MattHooper]

I have paid access to Prime, HBO, Netflix, and Tidal. I don't use any of them. The ways that DRM gets in the way of using media are myriad.
I can only assume that you are referring to this:
View attachment 62873

No I was thinking of a problem more like this:

https://www.nber.org/chapters/c12945.pdf

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nelson...lmmakers-and-artists-you-admire/#54eeb4034554

"Studios lose with piracy: A recent meta-analysis of peer-reviewed studies shows overwhelming evidence that piracy hurts movies financially. Some argue that there are no losses, but the peer-reviewed research leaves little doubt that illegal file sharing displaces paid consumption."


https://www.theguardian.com/film/2014/jul/17/digital-piracy-film-online-counterfeit-dvds

"Clapp adds that the financial impact is felt most acutely by the long list of people you see on the credits of a film. "Makeup artists, costume designers,, studios and facilities, even box office staff – they are the ones who are greatly affected by this loss of revenue.""

https://www.vox.com/2016/4/20/11393162/piracy-arthouse-film-extinct-jason-blum


https://www.mpa-apac.org/wp-content..._Consequences_of_Movie_Piracy_-_Australia.pdf

"6,100 Full Time Equivalent (FTE) jobs were forgone across the entire economy (equivalent to more than six times the number of job cuts announced by Telstra in October 2010) including nearly 2,300 forgone directly by the movie industry and retailers. These impacts of piracy on employment persist as long as piracy persists."


Digital video piracy costs movie and TV industry at least $29 billion a year, study says

https://www.cnet.com/news/digital-v...d-tv-industry-at-least-29-billion-study-says/

https://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/files/MPAstudy.pdf

https://www.artshub.com.au/educatio...affects-careers-in-film-and-television-251800

https://www.researchgate.net/public...Film_Piracy_on_International_Box_Office_Sales


https://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/alm3/papers/movie piracy.pdf

"After empirically examining both the cannibalization and promotion effects of piracy we find clear support that, for the vast majority of movies, the negative, cannibalization effects far outweigh the positive, promotional effects."

Etc.

Honestly, ever since sheet music piracy started, nobody has ever made money in entertainment.

Sure, whatever helps you sleep at night I guess. I mean, your case is "it's hard to make a living in the entertainment business...so I may
as well contribute to the problem by not paying for the product when I don't feel like it."

Massively profitable media companies cut your pay and used piracy as an excuse. They even got you to believe it.

So no one makes money in entertainment, yet it makes massive profits?

Look, you are far from the only person in the world doing this. It's massive, plenty of people do it. I get it.
But I know what it was like working in the film industry before and after illegal downloading began, and it hasn't been a subtle difference.
People are gonna torrent...but the excuses ring hollow.

 

[beefkabob]

No I was thinking of a problem more like this:
[a lot of copies and pasted stuff]

https://variety.com/2020/film/news/...0-billion-for-the-first-time-ever-1203529990/

101 billion dollars and you're not getting paid like you used to be? Well, somebody is.

Also, you don't recognize sarcasm. Or that image. It's from an anti-cassette tape campaign because, you know, cassette tapes were going to kill the music industry.

 

[beefkabob]

Here's a fun fact. The newest Rick and Morty episode will be available on my satellite TV at 11:30pm. The torrent will be available at approximately 9pm. I can pay for Hulu and the stream at 11:30pm, because, you know, time zone restrictions. Manage those digital rights, guys!

Sorry, @Sal1950. I know you haven't a clue about the show.

 

[kn0ppers]

Also, you don't recognize sarcasm.

He didn't notice your sarcasm just like I didn't. Maybe the problem isn't to be found on our side, but in the way you present your arguments.