The "Everything matters! Except when it doesn't" thread

[tuga]

I don't think you quite understand the research. The research also matches any intuitive understanding about loudspeaker design if you actually take the time to think about it.

We are discussion taste, not logic, nor science.

Do you really think you can prove that a guy who over 2 or 3 decades has owned a dozen speakers or two and has settled for a pair of omnis or some Zus or single-driver speakers has not done so because that is his preference?
Same goes for the guy who prefers SETs or the guy who swears for NOS DACs.

This is preposterous and patronising and wishful thinking.

 

[mhardy6647]

Soul loss from the firmware can be fixed with the Reincarnationgen option. It will reincarnate the lost soul completely.

I was under the impression that app uses a lossy codec.

PS There is an analog option.

And also its stereoisomer, Gutta-percha Soul, of course.

 

[RayDunzl]

I've had my 'stats since 1998.

I'm listening to them right now.

They would spectacularly fail spin-o-rama.

Nobody likes them at all.

They don't even look like speakers.

Does that qualify as at least a single instance of preposterous and patronizing and wishful thinking?

 

[Mnyb]

Taste is heavilly influenced by diverse biases . hence why some audiophiles are stuck in a constant upgrade loop the placebo wears off then the next fix .
AN and similar snakeoil vendors rely on that mechanism/fetishism it has very little to do with audio quality it's a racket and a cult.

Been there done that (not with AN products but other kinds of BS thank good my finances where never that good when i was younger ...)
A good question to ask AN is when they have they plan to have tube based room correction ready that would not fit into thier cargo cult engineering . AN is beyond "Taste" you been had if you own thier products

Panel speakers can be very good under the rigth circumstances i friend also has some martin logans , Ray had them since 1998 and seemed to been with them since and using miniDSP to iron out the kinks . Even if they don't fit some reasearch does not mean that they are bad . Audio is severly under reasearched IMHO ? and audio companys keep thier findings to themself .

Look at what you actually can patent in audio , the different THX amps headphones or power amp topology ? who just is a specific applikation of known principles nothing new , but audio is such a backwater that we have to take any scrap resembling engineering and/or science as a goodsend We simply have to be gratefull and that some people try to aply scientific principles and real engineering , the rest sees audio as a solved problem and moved on to other interesting stuff .

And the "custommers/cult-members" must make anyone manufacturing the stuff desilusionized you have to add all the correct trappings to able to sell , Kudos to Dynaudio for omitting biwire terminals on many of thier speakers for example ?

 

[tuga]

Taste is heavilly influenced by diverse biases . hence why some audiophiles are stuck in a constant upgrade loop the placebo wears off then the next fix .
AN and similar snakeoil vendors rely on that mechanism/fetishism it has very little to do with audio quality it's a racket and a cult.

Been there done that (not with AN products but other kinds of BS thank good my finances where never that good when i was younger ...)
A good question to ask AN is when they have they plan to have tube based room correction ready that would not fit into thier cargo cult engineering . AN is beyond "Taste" you been had if you own thier products

Many audiophiles say that they're in it for the ride, not to get to a particular destination; they get a craving and change gear for the pleasure of change.
Some call themselves "flavour of the day audiophiles" or "box-swappers".
Where would they fit in your theory?

Panel speakers can be very good under the rigth circumstances i friend also has some martin logans , Ray had them since 1998 and seemed to been with them since and using miniDSP to iron out the kinks . Even if they don't fit some reasearch does not mean that they are bad . Audio is severly under reasearched IMHO ? and audio companys keep thier findings to themself .

If they are "not bad" (your words) but don't fit some research either we need more research or maybe the existing research was made to fit a particular kind of speaker.
Perhaps ML should generate another research that fits their speakers...

 

[q3cpma]

Many audiophiles say that they're in it for the ride, not to get to a particular destination; they get a craving and change gear for the pleasure of change.
Some call themselves "flavour of the day audiophiles" or "box-swappers".
Where would they fit in your theory?

Do they actually enjoy it? Or did they just degenerate into this state because they have too much time and not enough things to do?

I've read most of your posts, and the thing that strikes me is that you think that preference is entirely driven by the ear. I say that all preferences deviating from a specific neutral (whatever it is) have a root in something else: nostalgia, group pressure, imagination or "degeneration". Personally, I've never thought of these people as actually searching for the (or their) best sound, their approach to the matter seems too unpure, obsessive and without a clear goal for that.

There's also the quite off-topic discussion about the mainstream philosophy that all opinions/tastes are of equal value, philosophy that not everybody agrees with. If I found myself with a preference (whatever the reason) for distorted sound, I'd rather wait for my ears to get used to what the artist actually meant to convey, not succomb to some psychological trickery. Because reason wins over emotions when you want long-term results rooted in reality.

Anyway, it's not like either of us can prove that these preferences are auditory or not; you'd need to DBT enough of these people to deduce that (and trust that they aren't just trying to "prove their point"). But I do think a talented psychologist might have something to say about these people, more so than psychoacousticians.

 

[tuga]

Do they actually enjoy it? Or did they just degenerate into this state because they have too much time and not enough things to do?

I've read most of your posts, and the thing that strikes me is that you think that preference is entirely driven by the ear. I say that all preferences deviating from a specific neutral (whatever it is) have a root in something else: nostalgia, group pressure, imagination or "degeneration". Personally, I've never thought of these people as actually searching for the (or their) best sound, their approach to the matter seems too unpure, obsessive and without a clear goal for that.

There's also the quite off-topic discussion about the mainstream philosophy that all opinions/tastes are of equal value, philosophy that not everybody agrees with. If I found myself with a preference (whatever the reason) for distorted sound, I'd rather wait for my ears to get used to what the artist actually meant to convey, not succomb to some psychological trickery. Because reason wins over emotions when you want long-term results rooted in reality.

Anyway, it's not like either of us can prove that these preferences are auditory or not; you'd need to DBT enough of these people to deduce that (and trust that they aren't just trying to "prove their point"). But I do think a talented psychologist might have something to say about these people, more so than psychoacousticians.

"What the artist actually meant to convey" is a pompous and absurd argument. Most will tell you whatever sounds good in what the majority uses as playback, which is tiny bluetooth mono speakers and cheap earbuds. MP3 is fine.

But I agree that taste is culture-driven.

 

[q3cpma]

"What the artist actually meant to convey" is a pompous and absurd argument. Most will tell you whatever sounds good in what the majority uses as playback, which is tiny bluetooth mono speakers and cheap earbuds. MP3 is fine.

But I agree that taste is culture-driven.

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean at all.

 

[FrantzM]

Seems that taste is not so much culture- driven when sight is removed.
see this from Sean Olive

 

[Tks]

Can we please keep this on topic: Vendors and users saying everything matters and then not.

Yes hypocrites, what else of it really?

 

[Mnyb]

Yes hypocrites, what else of it really?

Exactly like AN having passive I/V conversion in DAC with a silver-wired transformer is much more important than actual performance proved by almost a hundred years of research . Willfully ignoring facts and then invent their own