Turntables?

[Twitch54]

As I hope it would be for the price. But probably not a good starter table, which is what the OP is looking for.

agreed, perhaps the Op should give us some guidance as too budget. Given that he appears to be starting out he needs to understand table, arm, cartridge, phono-pre and ways and means to clean / maintain LP's................

To the Op's mention of the entry level Rega, now the 'RP-1', my sister and brother in-law just recently purchased one and I'm happy to report it no longer uses a platter made from MDF !

 

[Willem]

Since I started collecting recorded music in the 1970's I still have a Linn Sondek LP 12 with SME 3009 ii improved arm and now Shure M97xe cartridge. I love the looks of the fine mechanical engineering, particularly of the SME arm. However, sonically it loses hands down to a cheap Chromecast Audio or cheap Bluray player's digital outputs into an RME ADI-2 (plus Quad 606-2 amp and Quad 2805 speakers and B&W PV1d sub).

 

[LTig]

Looking to get my first turntable.

Not really sure what I should be paying attention to but so far rega planar 1, project DC and Sony ps-hx500 are names that came up.

Try to stick with a traditional maker who has never stopped producing good TTs. AFAIK in your list this means Rega. A younger colleague bought a P3 and is quite happy with it.

I may also throw in a Pioneer PLX-500. Never listened to it but saw it often in local pro shop. Or its bigger brother PLX-1000.

 

[Dimitri]

A crappy turntable with a great cartridge will sound better than a great turntable with a crappy cartridge.
I'd be reading cartridge reviews, then whatever turntable you end up with , you'll know what cartridge to add

 

[Frank Dernie]

A crappy turntable with a great cartridge will sound better than a great turntable with a crappy cartridge.
I'd be reading cartridge reviews, then whatever turntable you end up with , you'll know what cartridge to add

That is an over simplification.
The cartridge has the biggest effect in frequency response accuracy and contributes a large part of the distortion but contributes zero to feedback, rumble and speed constancy and the arm geometry and friction contribute to distortion and wear of both the stylus and disc.
There are plenty of fine sounding inexpensive cartridges.

 

[thefsb]

Not really sure what I should be paying attention to but so far rega planar 1, project DC and Sony ps-hx500 are names that came up.

Pay attention to the features that matter most to you.

For example, I currently use a Dual CS-5000 that I got a few months ago. The single most important feature is the tone-arm lifter. It has an optical sensor that detects when the needle has reached the run-out groove and it lifts the needle and stops the motor. That is so very important to me. I can lie on the couch finishing the chapter and I don't need to listen to the horrible 33⅓ clunk. Or I can be distracted and leave the room and safely forget about it.

For another example, I avoid the delicate belt-drive tables with delicate arms. I'd choose a DJ table over that. But there were a lot of great mid-priced hi-fi tables in the 80s and 90s. https://www.vinylengine.com/ has tremendous wealth of practical resources if you're interested in older gear on the used market.

So first identify what matters most to you.

And don't think it has to cost a lot. I heard a Denon DP-300F with a $100 Grado cart playing Back-Woods Song from the Gateway album and it sounded real swell.

 

[Dimitri]

That is an over simplification.
The cartridge has the biggest effect in frequency response accuracy and contributes a large part of the distortion but contributes zero to feedback, rumble and speed constancy and the arm geometry and friction contribute to distortion and wear of both the stylus and disc.
There are plenty of fine sounding inexpensive cartridges.

It is an oversimplification and "crappy" can mean different things at various degrees.
I expect most turnables to meet some minimum "standard". I'll go look again but it seems the old "specifications" section is now all about size , weight, power input and finish.
Often , there is no claim made regarding wow and flutter numbers. And the few I have seen are worse than what you could buy new 30 years ago! And since here we also like to throw numbers around... here is a collection of them: https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=107038&start=135

Same goes for rumble.

As for arm geometry, you'd think by now "geometry" wouldn't be as much of a mystery as it were 30 years ago and it would be a "solved problem.

Regarding "fine sounding inexpensive cartridges". Yes there are. And maybe that's part of the problem.
Profit margins being what they are, the market seems to be full of pricey turntables with "fine sounding cartridges".
To confuse matters even more, add the built in phono preamp and digital output and you end up with this "thing" that plays records.
And it must be good.

 

[Wes]

My understanding is that both the Rega and the Project are good entry-level tables.

Good luck on your exploration into the joys of vinyl.

same

choice may depend on whether you can place the turntable in a closet, etc. for best acoustic isolation

many top recordings are only on vinyl or are mastered better on vinyl than (early?) CDs, so I appreciate your question

 

[Frank Dernie]

It is an oversimplification and "crappy" can mean different things at various degrees.
I expect most turnables to meet some minimum "standard". I'll go look again but it seems the old "specifications" section is now all about size , weight, power input and finish.
Often , there is no claim made regarding wow and flutter numbers. And the few I have seen are worse than what you could buy new 30 years ago! And since here we also like to throw numbers around... here is a collection of them: https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=107038&start=135

Same goes for rumble.

As for arm geometry, you'd think by now "geometry" wouldn't be as much of a mystery as it were 30 years ago and it would be a "solved problem.

Regarding "fine sounding inexpensive cartridges". Yes there are. And maybe that's part of the problem.
Profit margins being what they are, the market seems to be full of pricey turntables with "fine sounding cartridges".
To confuse matters even more, add the built in phono preamp and digital output and you end up with this "thing" that plays records.
And it must be good.

When I worked in the business in the 1970s AFAIK everything we needed to know to produce a good turntable system was already known. The challenge was to design something with minimal rumble and wow and flutter and low mechanical and airborne vibration pickup which avoided its own internal resoonances exciting the headshell too much at the lowest price possible using clever engineering.
Since the demise of record players then their rebirth as a fashionable item more recently most of it has been either forgotten or ignored, perhaps to produce buzz explanations semi-understandable to non-technically minded enthusiasts. Genuine good engineering and low price for good performance have lost out to styling and marketing BS.
It exasperates the living daylights out of me.

 

[Frank Dernie]

same

choice may depend on whether you can place the turntable in a closet, etc. for best acoustic isolation

many top recordings are only on vinyl or are mastered better on vinyl than (early?) CDs, so I appreciate your question

My experience is that early CDs are well mastered exploiting the superior dynamic range of the CD medium. It is later "remasters" compressed to sound OK on ear-buds on the bus or in a car and subsequently most recordings which are less well mastered for listening to at home than LPs might be.
It is ironic that the medium which has the capability of wide dynamic range is distributed ruined (IMHO) to be suitable for mobile listeners since they are by far the majority today
It makes a bit of sense since nobody is going to listen to an LP in their car or on the bus but it does mean that tiny minority of listeners who want to listen to high quality sound at home have had the source with the best potential bodged.

 

[renaudrenaud]

Try to stick with a traditional maker who has never stopped producing good TTs. AFAIK in your list this means Rega. A younger colleague bought a P3 and is quite happy with it.

I may also throw in a Pioneer PLX-500. Never listened to it but saw it often in local pro shop. Or its bigger brother PLX-1000.

As Wombat showed us, the Pionner PLX-1000 seems not so good.

 

[Wombat]

As Wombat showed us, the Pionner PLX-1000 seems not so good.

When compared to the Technics(on a large rigid table) and for high gain situation. I don't know how other TTs would perform in that situation. The Pioneer could possibly become the subject of simple DIY mods to reduce the resonance.

Does anybody own one?

 

[Phorize]

The Rega/project TTs are all reliable and sensibly priced. I’d avoid all boutique manufacturers. Vintage/classic gear is great but be prepared to spend lots to get it to spec. All used records have to be cleaned, disco anti stat is a good cheap solution. You’ll need set up equipment too, scales etc. Would be good to know your budget expectations to be more specific. In manufacturing engineering terms you can justify spending 000’s if you want to.

 

[AudioSceptic]

This is not a thread of debate or counter arguments, it's to help get the proper vinyl equipment to enjoy such a medium. Please stay on subject.

You're welcome to create your own thread for this or disregard.

So what is your budget, or is it flexible and you are trying to find the point of diminishing returns? Playing vinyl is one area where better mechanical engineering does make a difference, up to a point, and better engineering costs money.

 

[raindance]

Fluance RT82 looks appealing to me.

 

[thefsb]

Pay attention to the features that matter most to you.

For example, ...

For another example, I excluded all tables that lack a cover with hinges. If it doesn't come with a cover then I need to buy an after market one, which are expensive, ugly and large, and I'd have to take it off find somewhere to put it while I play records. What do people with VPI, Clearaudio and all the others without a cover do? Dust them twice a week?

 

[Willem]

Mine has a cover but sits inside a cabinet. I try to keep my audio gear is much out of sight as possible, and inside there is no space for the cover, so I have taken it off.

 

[thefsb]

Mine has a cover but sits inside a cabinet. I try to keep my audio gear is much out of sight as possible, and inside there is no space for the cover so I have taken it off.

That's a good option, of course, if you have or can install a suitable cabinet.

 

[Mr Rick]

For another example, I excluded all tables that lack a cover with hinges. If it doesn't come with a cover then I need to buy an after market one, which are expensive, ugly and large, and I'd have to take it off find somewhere to put it while I play records. What do people with VPI, Clearaudio and all the others without a cover do? Dust them twice a week?

If you own one of those, you have your man servant dust it.

 

[Toroid]

Technics SL1200 GR + Schiit Mani + Nagaoka MP-150 - This will compete with anything out there IMO.

Don't forget the Record Doctor V. If getting into vinyl you NEED clean records - This may be the most important part actually.